Hacker News Reader

Comment by snowram | Hacker News Reader

Pointless rambling but I am tired of Kojima being titled as the sole creator every time he is involved in a game. This cult of personality is silly.

View on HN

Game creators are also annoyed by it. ;) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=...

Great quote

How ironic

If anyone else is a fan of the original Deus Ex, one of the writers for it, Sheldon Pacotti, has been writing science fiction for years:

http://sheldonpacotti.com/

I read Demiurge right after I played the original Deus Ex for that reason. It was a masterpiece.

Haven't had the chance to read anything by Chris Todd yet (the writer/curator of all the snippets you come across within the game, as opposed to the plot itself), but I remember enjoying his in-game style a lot too at the time.

That's double silly as Warren Spector was only marginally involved with Thief for a short time; certainly not the "creator". In his own words: "[I] worked briefly on Thief: The Dark Project (though my impact on that title was, at best, minimal)".

It's not ideal, but it's better than crediting the game entirely to the publisher. Talking about studios can be useful, but then you have to include a year or something since the make up a studio can change radically over time. There are definitely people in the industry that have an outsized influence or a particular style/flavor to their output.

I would argue that it isn't better than crediting the game to the studio. People can look into the game's credits to see who actually worked on it. However when everyone keeps going "Bob made this game", nobody bothers looking into who else. They just become a deity of creation.

I wouldn't say it's just a cult of personality though. Game directors control exactly what makes it into a game, what is made for the game, and ultimately how it turns out. No other individual has anywhere near that level of impact, nor responsibility. You can generally see this quite clearly when those big names leave studios, of which there are countless examples.

Kojima's final game at Konami was Metal Gear Solid V. After he left, Konami shrugged and made Metal Gear Survive. Suffice to say, the non-Kojima metal gear was a flop. Itagaki is another example. He's the creator of Ninja Gaiden, and also ended up leaving Team Ninja after a dispute. His final game was Ninja Gaiden 2, their first game was Ninja Gaiden 3. And again, the reception went from positive, to flop.

And to be clear it's not like these series waxed and waned. Every single Metal Gear game with Kojima received exceptional praise. Similarly for every single Ninja Gaiden game, to a lesser degree. Then they leave, and the series collapse. Obviously far more people work on these games than just the singular name, but if most of these people were replaced with somebody of a similar skillset, the final product would be largely unchanged.

---

Reception for Metal Gear Solid V: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_The_Phanto...

Reception for Metal Gear Survive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Survive#Reception

Ninja Gaiden 2 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_II#Reception

Ninja Gaiden 3 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_3#Reception

You appear to be calculating something like Wins Above Replacement by saying the only thing that changed between these releases is the director being replaced. But you don't know that for sure. For example, Kojima would have known the most impactful, most critical staff at Konami. When he started his own thing he might have encouraged them to move. If this had happened Konami would have had to complete the new game with a gutted team, which would explain the poor quality.

Of course you can say "well if this is true it only shows that Kojima can attract the best talent to work for him" and sure, that's probably true. But then we can't claim it's all completely Kojima doing the work.

Sure, I think that's a perfectly reasonable point. You'll find quite a lot of name overlap on Death Stranding (Kojima's first independent game) and Metal Gear Solid 5. But rather than appeal to Kojima attracting the best talent, I'd appeal to something else. Kojima has been creating Metal Gear games for nearly 40 years. And while there's naturally going to be some overlap between iterations, it's all liminal.

Go back to the original 1987 Metal Gear on the NES and you'll find 0 overlap except for Kojima. Kojima was a new hire at the time and thrust onto a completely new team on a project already in development. He dramatically shifted the direction of what was being built, and what was born was Metal Gear. And, as would become a recurring pattern for every single title he's been involved in, it was met with phenomenal reception.

Yeah, what you're saying is quite likely.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Kojima benefits from relying on a highly skilled team that deserves more credit than they get. At the same time he probably doesn't get enough credit for attracting that talent and creating an environment they can flourish in. If that were easy then anyone would do it.

"Auteur theory": somewhat valid, but definitely hides a lot of real creative input by a lot of people.

A game, much like a film, is usually a collective effort. Most people don't even have the eyes to see the individual parts that flow into such a work.

Well it depends.

Hidetaka Miyazaki,for example, is one such “auteur game designer” and it’s very clear when he has had his influence on a game.

Just compare Dark Souls 1 or 3 (which he worked on) to Dark Souls 2 (which he didn’t work on) and Bloodborne (which was created by Miyazaki in parallel with DS2) and you’ll see that his influence on games that he has a direct hand in is massive.

Or for something more relevant, the first and only Metal Gear game released after Kojima was fired by Konami - Meta Gear: Survive - was an unmitigated disaster. Metal Gear Solid 5 was unfinished and flawed, but there’s no denying that it had Kojima’s flourish on it.

That's just author theory applied to video games. Everyone know that games like movies are collective endeavour. The question is: is the final product the manifestation of someone vision?

Same for Elon.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com