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Comment by pcurve | Hacker News Reader

Aside from the increase in quality, even basic $30k cars these day drive nicely and ride exceedingly well compared to their ancestors from the 90s and early 2000s.

The incremental improvement that you get by trading in for newer model or even up, just isn't worth the price of admission compared to the past.

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> even basic $30k cars

"basic" as in it takes 2 years earning min wage and not spending a dime to afford it

adjusted for inflation not to mention features, cars are cheaper than ever.

My first new car was 1992 Maxima. It retailed for nearly $20k in 1991, which is $43k in today's money.

It didn't even come with leather, power seat, sunroof, ABS, CD, or automatic climate control. It only had one airbag.

What does the Nissan Maxima retail for right now? Regional price differences means my looking up that information is meaningless, but I'm seeing more than $30k.

Maxima has moved upmarket and it's no longer a basic car. However, Nissan Altima starts at $25k.

I'm not sure the history of the Maxima, but in 1992 it was being marketed as a "four-door sports car", which doesn't sound the bottom of the market to me. It sounds like a bad example either way. Maybe a better example would be the Nissan Altima, which was available in 1993 for $13,349[1] and would cost (according to the calculator here[2]) ~$28,000 in today's dollars

[1] https://www.cargurus.com/research/1993-Nissan-Altima-c3078 [2] https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.html

Yeah I didn't mean to imply the Maxima was basic. In fact, I meant the opposite, because it costs $43k in today's money, yet hardly came with any features that you'd find in today's $30k cars.

Ah, ok, I was confused as to the point.

Even if true, min wages are stagnating once you account for inflation

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/18728.jpeg

> cars are cheaper than ever

factually false and easily verifiable, VW polo/golf current gen are 40%+ more expensive than V1s once you adjust for inflation: https://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/vw-golf-40-year-price-hist...

renault clio 1: 8000 euros (adjusted) renault clio 5: 20000 euros (current)

peugeot 205: 9000 euros (adjusted) peugeot 208: 17000 euros (current)

> It didn't even come with leather, power seat, sunroof, ABS, CD, or automatic climate control. It only had one airbag.

No cars comes with the bare minimum anymore (mandatory safety features), they all have screens, infotainment, useless gadgets. If you just want to go from A to B you don't need a computer on wheels.

Not even talking about maintenance, you can't do anything by yourself anymore

$30k Cars are not for people earning minimum wage. Take a bus or buy something sub $5k. Minimum wage uses the minimum viable transportation.

The average new car price is $48k now: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43611570/average-new-car-...

Where are people going to find a $30k or less new car? Lol they don't exist.

Nothing that can drive reliably is under $10k used too.

Be as smug as you want but at the end of the day if minimum wage earners can't get affordable transportation then none of the treats you depend on and demand every day, like your coffee barista or your overpriced sandwiches, or your dog walker, etc. will be available.

I paid 29K+tax for my brand new Mazda CX-5 Select (not the cheapest model) 3 months ago.

Mitsubishi Mirage is $20k at most, last I checked.

Not luxurious, but simple, reliable, and even has Android Auto/Apple CarPlay.

Mazda dealer down the street will sell you a mid-range Mazda 3 for $25k. And those are quite good cars. A Kia Soul can easily be had for $22k, or a Rio for $20k or less. They're not quite as nice, but they'll work.

>or buy something sub $5k.

And spend shitton on regular repairs :)

Cars are very efficient when it comes to keeping the poor - poor.

It depends on what you buy. My 1996 Toyota is at 125k and I drive it super hard. I've charged the AC once and replaced the fuel pump twice.

My son daily drives a 1963 Dart. My friend drives a 2018 Kia. My friend spent $700 on a replacement door control panel. My son spent $30 on a replacement head (swapped in 3 hours).

Your 1996 has remarkably low miles on it. Apparently the average miles a year is ~13,500[1], so you should be ~364,5000.

[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/auto-loans/a32880477/average-mi...

I'm surprised that the dart has never been redone in that time.

I bought the Toyota with 40k about 7 years ago. It had been parked in a garage for 10 years. A client of mine was an attorney and no one in the estate wanted the car.

My son bought the Dart off FB marketplace, pulled it out of the weeds and put it back on the road. He drove it for a year before finally welding in floorpans (prep for 3k mi trip). 1960-1963 made a lot of cars that aren't popular now. No big rush to restore those.

I've heard too many horror stories of how many repairs are needed for < 5K cars. When I was shopping for a car in 2021 I was comparing a ~100K mile Kia Rio Hatchback (no power windows, scraped up, pretty rough shape) for ~12K + tax (~13.5-14K total), or a brand new one of the same model (ended up paying 20K out the door). This was at the same dealership.

I got the new one, could probably sell it for almost the same price as I bought it for 1.5 years and 25K miles later (though to be fair, I got a pretty good deal on it).

Due to depreciation curve being out of whack right now (and labor being expensive), a new car can actually cost you less than a 5k clunker - not to mention loss of income if it breaks down.

Yes, wealth inequality is massive. Most people I know could buy that car in cash without thinking about it.

However, I must say: $30k is not that basic, my $30.5k vehicle came with 11" touchscreen, vision system for adaptive cruise control & lane tracking & progressive enhancement safety features, easy-to-fold backseats for a massive trunk, comfy & durable ride, and great seats.

Pretty sure the real basic cars come in at 15-20k these days.

Where in the US are people driving a new car home after paying 15k-20k? I'm hearing 60k-80k from buyers and these folks are far from well off.

You're hearing 60-80k from buyers who are buying Nissan Versa? Or from people who are buying Lexus/Tesla/Ford MachE?

I find it hard to believe a car with a $15.5k MSRP is going for $60k, I'd love for you to elaborate on what you're saying...

Me indicating the buyers aren't well off is me indicating they aren't buying luxury brands. Past that I rarely recall what a newer model is as I can't tell modern cars apart. I guess I also can't get past modern price tags.

It sounds like you routinely see new cars that can be taken home after paying 15k-25k. What's an example of a sub 20k 4-door?

It makes no sense to try to imply things cost $60k like that's a lot when you don't know what vehicles they are. Some vehicles cost $60-80k, but most don't.

> What's an example of a sub 20k 4-door

I already mentioned one. Nissan Versa.

Here's a bunch of listings where you could buy a new vehicle for $18k today [0]

[0]: https://www.redwoodcitynissan.com/new-nissan-versa-redwood-c...

If you keep up on maintenance and aren't riding around on blown shocks, sagging springs, etc. then 20 plus year old cars ride perfectly fine. I would gladly ride around in a Lexus LS400 or Mercedes S class from 1992 in great condition vs. a brand new Honda Civic.

Me too. Most XF30 LS430 are still amazing condition, and I consider it to be the last LS with original Lexus DNA.

Civics are amazing cars.

They're nice but they are designed to a cheaper consumer price point. The LS400 and top end luxury cars of 30 years ago were designed to be ultra smooth and comfortable. The LS400 had to be able to drive at 100mph+ on the autobahn without any vibration or noise from the engine felt in the cabin--it was an actual design requirement from the head of the company. If you've kept up on maintenance an old luxury car like that will drive just as smooth and comfortably as when new, and way more smooth than a new economy car.

My only concern with a car that old is crash safety, otherwise I think they're phenominal. Here's for example a 2nd gen LS400 and a new Civic IIHS tests[1]. There's some better photos on the IIHS' website, and actual measurements.[2] Rust can also impact the car's structural integrity and crash worthiness over the years.[3]

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjDYbIFxJrM

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSSEKzv166Q

[2]https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/lexus/ls-4-door-sedan/1...

[2]https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/Honda/civic-4-door-seda...

[3]https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1695221/heres-how-rust-affect...

You don't even have to go as ancient as a 20+ year old car. A 5 year old car will be just as reliable as a new car and cheaper.

I've always owned used cars. It may just be my upbringing, but I was always told only rich people or stupid people who don't know what "depreciation" means buy new cars. I mean, I'm glad there are people out there buying new cars: They're eating the depreciation and supplying the second-hand market.

And horsepower

https://archive.ph/DNTsx/62972222ee75d8e11096ec4ae083d37d85b...

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