The massive gender imbalance in IT leads to skewed perceptions of what is acceptable in a professional environment. This in turn helps perpetuate gender imbalance. Simply, women do not want to work and get harassed.
I'd rather have more women in programming, than men who think sexual harassment is okay in a professional enviroment.
1. It definitely can be (by legal, social, etc definitions), and it's very silly to claim otherwise in any form of generality. Like if I overhear you talking about what you want to do to my breasts or whatever, congrats, you've harassed me even if you didn't mean me to hear.
I don't remember the particular jokes here enough to give a more particularized view, but your statement is pretty general. In any case,
2. To the degree it isn't harassment, it can also be considered creation of a hostile work environment (even at a conference), which is also actionable and has been for many decades (ie this is not some new recent thing). The most common form you will find is probably exactly this: people making inappropriate jokes loud enough for others to hear.
Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too?
Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change.
I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy.
Given that "Mad Men" is no longer considered standard acceptable workplace behavior, uh, i think it did already?
These are not new laws, they started in ~1964 (in the US), and have shown positive results pretty quickly?
"Reductio ad absurdum, like, what if you don't overhear me talking about what I want to do to your breasts, is that harassment too?"
Yes, actually, but i'm sure you know this.
You act as if this is all some horrible form of oppression - sexual harassment law is ... not particularly hard to avoid violating.
There are certainly edge cases, but like, it's really not that hard to avoid sexually harassing your coworkers.
You'd have a stronger argument about PC and more general "acceptable workplace behavior" or something.
"Your being absurd by assuming your experience generalises to the whole population, and that the way you think things should change is the way things should change."
Uh, you think that sexual harassment law does not enjoy broad support? Okay?
"I'm willing to bet boob, dick, and bum jokes will be proven more durable than this bout of lunacy."
In the workplace, so far you have turned out pretty wrong, and this "bout of lunacy" has been going on for well over half a century in the US, and longer elsewhere.
So maybe you should reconsider.
I can hear all kinds of overtly racist and sexist statements from my female colleagues, but because they are women, and their comments are directed at white folks and male folks, they are totally safe from this sort of retribution. (Ex. "I didn't want to move here because it's eyeroll so white")
Meanwhile, an (admittedly juvenile) set of jokes gets some people fired.
But as a guy, if I did one tiny thing wrong I would be labelled all sorts of nasty things. It could be as little as being slightly too friendly to a woman somewhere, because I am really happy, having a really good day, and I would be treated horribly.
This is a widespread rampant problem in society. It's being seen as "harassment" when it's coming from men. But not so when it's coming from women.
https://inspiredelearning.com/blog/sexual-harassment-in-the-...
Yes, radical feminists are behind this, they have even taken over academia, and it's taboo to speak out against it, if you do, you will find yourself up against a mob.
I wonder if there is an evolutionary basis for such sexual conformity in humans. Because I'm trying to find an explanation for what's going on. How so many lives are being destroyed over trivial sexual transgressions, things that are really trifles and cause no real harm other than discomfort or unpleasantness. Of course serious transgressions such as rape are not trivial at all.
Or is it really down to our society instead?
55% of all EEOC complaints were about "retaliation", that's not 55% of victims, as the headline shows. That's 55% of all reports. Which means there are definitionally more reports of retaliation than reports of incidents!
Additionally, you have stuff like this: https://www.the74million.org/article/ed-department-sex-discr...
That's pervasive, but it's not appropriate either. This is why I said low key unprofessionalism should initially be dealt with by apologies and training.
> Meanwhile, an (admittedly juvenile) set of jokes gets some people fired.
I said that was an overreaction. But it's a different employer, who were acting due to publicity.
It comes with the territory of living in a low-trust society (which the U.S. pretty much is nowadays). Joking around about topics that might raise offense is a luxury we can't necessarily afford in every circumstance.
In this day and age? Yes. Absolutely. Comedians often lament the death of comedy, and I can see why. People are super easily offended and even minor comments make them lose their marbles.
What's changed is the feeling that it has to be endured without comment and left to slide in professional settings as happened in the past.
I myself find it odd that people are super offended and lose their marbles now that women are expressing an opinion.
Meanwhile women can harass and even "stalk" men and get away with it, the problem is ignored in society. In most cases these behaviors are completely harmless. What makes it so infuriating is that if an equally harmless man did the same, he could be in trouble with the law for it. He is presumed potentially predatory and dangerous for being male. This is a clear cut case of discrimination.
> loudly enough to be heard by women
This is actually degeneration of feminism and equality. It harks back to conservatism "cover your lady's ears so she doesn't hear the wisecracks"
And it really doesn't square with the people I know. The men and women I've mixed with over the years are equal with the adult themed jokes. The rudest is the lady who lives next door.
So I don't actually believe that women don't want to hear that kind of joking about. I think they don't want to hear the kind of joking about that I, and probably most men, don't want to hear either: The I'd screw her, "locker room" (not any locker room I've been in, they're mostly be quiet and get on with dressing places) talk. But the collateral damage is a subset of people who now feel empowered to suck all the enjoyment out of everyones life.