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Comment by diogocp | Hacker News Reader

> Seems like the entire cost of running the business and keeping people employed has been passed on to the customer.

Who else do you expect to pick up the tab?

Yea this mindset always confuses me. If you don't tip the employees, the prices will go up, and you'll pay the same price either way. Where do people think the money that goes to employees comes from if not ultimately from customers pockets?

I agree but I just want to know the price up front. If they have to sell the sandwich for $12 then put $12 on the sign, don't put $9 and then try to pressure me into a $3 tip.

It's the hiding of the actual price that pisses people off, but not enough to prevent them from using the service obviously; there's a reason that hidden fees are a dark pattern that I'm sure date back to antiquity.

It's not even the hiding that pisses me off. It's the manipulation.

This assumes that money is distributed evenly though. Nothing stops restaurants from lowering server pay, increasing prices, and just taking profits to themselves.

I'd prefer no tips, an increase in price, and no hidden bs fees/tips

Edit: evenly meaning an increase in prices proportionally increases employee pay

The rest of the (developed) world manages to operate by paying living wages and displaying and charging the final price. US is the only one that needs to underpay staff (and charge 10 to 100 times more for health and education while we mention differences) and then DEMAND 20% tip and 15% service charge on top of random 10-20% taxes. Just end the slavery mindset already and pay your people a living wage. If the business cannot afford that then it should not exist and new business that knows how to operate properly will take their place.

Canada also has the ridiculous top pressure but (I believe in all jurisdictions but might be wrong) eliminated the lower than minimum wage pay for servers. And we have the added nonsense of being asked to tip at the oil change place and other areas where no one was ever being paid less than minimum wage.

> If you don't tip the employees, the prices will go up, and you'll pay the same price either way.

Right, which is preferable by far. At least that makes the whole thing noncoercive.

Businesses should pay their people a reasonable wage, not make the employees beg, or rely on guilt and coercion to get your customers to make up for what the business doesn't want to do.

I think the point is that if a business wants its employees to make a living wage, they should pay them that wage, and make whatever adjustments are required on the business end to make that possible, instead of continuing to pay wait staff less than minimum wage and guilt tripping customers into providing the rest. Yes, ultimately the money that will be used to pay the staff will come from the customer, but the way restaurants do it is dumb. Just pay them more and raise your prices.

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