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Comment by mordae | Hacker News Reader

Agreed. I am married and have meaning of my life pretty much figured out, but I do play games and watch anime on the side.

The biggest problem with average contemporary "true adults" is that they only act as if they have their shit figured out. In reality they mostly tend to be incredibly close minded, have super limited knowledge of the world due to their TV addiction and are generally more authoritarian due to our socioeconomic system being super authoritarian.

The (more intelligent and cultured) outliers are actually closer to these supposed "kidults". More open minded, more tolerant, way less zealous.

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I think we enjoy pathologizing choices we don't make and lifestyles we don't understand. So a non-gamer might see the adult gamer as infantilized, while the gamer sees the the non-gamer as a victim of an authoritarian socioeconomic system, or something.

I'm not convinced either person is correct about anything. They probably would drop those thoughts if they got off social media and got to know each other instead.

100% agree here

Pretty much this. This isn't real. It's not who we are.

The boomers were all about not selling out until they did and became the Man. GenX are now wrinkly tattooed grey hairs that still wear skater clothes while eyeing their 401ks.

"I thought we were all slacking off together. but you all went out and got jobs while I was sleeping."

Idk. I think that view of adulthood is pretty biased.

I think it is more that the “games” that we play become less overt, and overt games tend to be replaced by covert ones, such as social stature, and personal growth, IRL social “games”, like relationships and solo or shared challenges, “levelling up” in accomplishments such as books written or papers published, business or notable accomplishments, etc.

Overt games give way to applying learned behaviours that use game theory to create personal value, wealth, or legacy… but it’s still very much “playing a game” just with greater risks and rewards.

IRL games make practice games seems quite boring by comparison, their challenges mundane and their prizes irrelevant.

What am I supposed to do with wealth if I shouldn't use it to purchase it the childish things that I enjoy?

Idk, use it to make the world a more just and survivable place? Help to develop practical fusion power so we can avoid extinction? Preserve some biodiversity? Anything vaguely useful to the next generation?

Nations prosper when old men plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

Even Bezos amounts of money won't achieve any of the things you've listed.

He listed three things, and two of them are pretty easy:

>Preserve some biodiversity? Anything vaguely useful to the next generation?

Fusion is harder, but hey.

You don’t have to do it big, just do it small. You aren’t making landfills, you don’t need to save a forest.

Make a little house for solitary bees on your windowsill. Guerilla plant a tree once a week. Flower-bomb some vacant lots for the local bees. Create something useful that reduces wasteful consumption, and open source it to the world.

The key here is that everything I mentioned is a positive motion. It creates something new that is useful. You cannot create a worthwhile world just by using public transportation or biking instead of driving. Sure, reducing your footprint matters, but it will go to zero when you die anyway. Do things that can transcend your tiny life, do them frequently, and some of them actually will.

All of those things are doable with minimal effort, and everyone who does those kinds of things it changes the world in significant ways.

>survivable

Ok. Let’s assume we’ve made the world a more survivable place.

…what then? What do we do with all this newfound “survival”? At THAT point are we allowed to watch anime?

You can watch all the anime you want, the only thing we “owe” the world is to attempt to offset our costs of existence to future generations, which given our current personal footprint is not a trivial task.

Otherwise you’re just another jerk that wants all the cake for themselves.

>Otherwise you’re just another jerk that wants all the cake for themselves.

Wow, blanket generalization much?

Are you viewing this as an "either/or" situation, or are we cool to do both? Eg, plant those trees and then go play some video games?

Of course!

Lol you're not even being a jerk about it and this still gets downvoted.

HN doesn't make it very clear whether the downvote button is also a "disagree" button.

I sometimes observe things in the phrasing of comments which might incline some to downvote on the basis of incentivizing a better discussion (if I assume generously of the downvoters’ intentions). The comment stating, “I dunno, how about [Suggestions]?” could instead be “[Suggestions].” and the downvoters’ perspective is that it should be.

It’s not necessarily being used as a disagree button in such a case. It’s similar to, “This might be unpopular but ...”; some people will principle-downvote (right or wrong) for what they see as conducive to a bad discussion.

IIRC, Dang's explicitly stated that the downvote button is ok to use as a disagree button.

How come you get a downvote button? I’ve never seen one here.

This place has an in group, I see… serves me right for typing comments on a VC blog

It's an age of account | depth of engagement thing.

Stay a while longer, get a few more upvotes on your comments (the general key is to add substance), and one day you'll get the option to downvote comments | flag topics / comments, etc.

https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented

Downvotes and more are unofficially documented here.

Mostly I agree with your take, my assumption is that the karma requirement for downvoting is to help prevent downvote spam, but that's just me making crap up.

I work hard at work, and have multiple side projects outside of work which I rotate working through daily. At 28 I'm a top 1% earner for my age group. By every measure of my friends I am one of the most productive people they know. In the words of one of them yesterday "you're a beast". I still game every Tuesday and for a few hours on the weekend, I also watch Anime.

I find your argument pretty ridiculous. It's not like these things are mutually exclusive.

The reality is everyone gamer or not is just generally inneficient with their time.

Yeah kinda same, as many people on HN. Similar age range.

My partner and I are in the top couple percent of incomes, have more savings than the average retiree, have both achieved a lot in our careers, and have spent time volunteering for causes that genuinely improve people’s lives or contribute to the world.

I also “waste” a lot of my time doing silly things (including video games, but other hobbies as well). I got the new Legend of Zelda game on release day!

It makes no sense to say that these two can’t coexist. I think that doing enjoyable hobbies like video games makes me a more interesting person overall. Friends at work were asking about the new Zelda game when I said that I’d spent the weekend playing, for example.

But like, why work so hard if I can’t do my video games and art and athletic hobbies?

Nobody born tomorrow cares if you make money or game.

They care if they inherit a world that their grandchildren can prosper in. That’s what we all should be focusing some of our energy on.

>Nobody born tomorrow cares if you make money or game.

It's like you willfully ignored the following part of OP's comment and decided to continue to criticize them as though they didn't say this...

>... and have spent time volunteering for causes that genuinely improve people’s lives or contribute to the world.

No one from the next generation cares about your “productivity”. They care about the net impact of your existence. What is your vaunted productivity creating? How does that look in 50 years?

For many of us, looking in that particular mirror can be an unpleasant experience.

I mean a lot of projects that so far other people are using to build cool things?

Information that has helped other people fix problems or learn something they thought was hard.

What has your tearing down of others accomplished? Have you considered a deeper look in the mirror yourself? From where I'm standing your the only one who seems in need of it, all of this sounds like projection to me.

Really, no one cares about your earnings or your gaming. The question you should be asking yourself is what you are leaving in your wake? What are you doing to make the world as good as or maybe slightly better than when you showed up? What do you produce to offset your resource consumption and environmental footprint?

I started asking myself these questions in my thirties, and because of that I now write software and farm organic coffee, cacao, avacados, and a handful of other permaculture crops on a small scale. The farming makes zero money, but it is worthwhile, and I strive to create a space that benefits not only myself, but my community.

Your original comment was painting a picture that people who game aren't productive, where you provided entirely arbitrary items you consider productive. My point was you can game and be productive. Your response tells me you've never done anything of note towards the next generation. Forgive me if I entirely ignore you, I'll continue actually doing things and let you get on with your armchair quarterbacking. At least I'm trying, instead of being passive aggressive on the internet.

If you spend your money on the "child-like" activities (fantasy, gaming, etc) as opposed to adult-like ones (huge suburban house, car, boat) you help preserve biodiversity and help other people as a side-effect.

Also - planting trees is largely pointless. Trees plant themselves if you leave land unused. If they don't that usually means you have to waste a lot of resources to maintain the trees that you planted in particular spot.

It's funny how the societal norms work.

> Also - planting trees is largely pointless.

Clearly this is a metaphor for doing things that will benefit future generations after you are gone.

Planting a shade tree in a park, or planting trees (of appropriate species) along a street or sidewalk is not useless.

Wow. You really only think of the costs of your consumption?

It’s the costs of our production that propagates through time. Your consumption ends with you and is largely irrelevant. What are you helping to create? What does that look like in 50 years?

I can’t imagine justifying my existence by what I don’t leave in the toilet.

You implied someone else is a jerk in another comment, but really, I think that title might belong to someone else here. You're being quite judgemental.

> Help to develop practical fusion power so we can avoid extinction?

If that's your weekend hobby project, what do you do at work?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope to set it up so my grandchildren and great-grandchildren don't have to carry debt around like millstones and boat anchors chained to their necks.

And while by no means is it certain, hoping I succeed a little earlier and settle that for my children too.

Once those issues are secured, maybe there will be a little extra to buy a few toys.

Thinking about your children and grand childrens lifes is good. What about your own life though?

When I decided I wanted to be a father, I realized that the rest of my life would become one of being a bullet shield or spare parts as necessary. Seriously, every once in awhile I catch myself wondering exactly how I'd manage to become a heart donor for my kids if they ever needed that.

I started too late to be able to be anything but a K strategist, but even if I could've been the other I wouldn't want to. My children are my life.

The part no one reading this comment will believe is that my life has been so much better than it was before. I was a worthless asshole, and all the misery I experienced was no one else's fault but my own.

That is interesting. Would you say your empathy increased after having children?

I mean, you can also teach them French or German and they’ll never have to be in debt.

If you never have fun, especially next to your children, your kids won’t forget. Your great grandchildren won’t know you and they probably don’t want to be shackled with the expectations that comes with your money.

Use it to keep playing the game of acquiring wealth, silly! But seriously, the answers are probably forego entertainment and try to build something, or like donate it or something.

Open minded and contributing less to society or closed minded and contributing more. Which is more valuable to society overall? Tough question.

It's easy to be open minded when nothing is at stake. As soon as you have something to protect the game changes drastically. You start eliminating ideas from your head that provide no value.

For example, someone who works retail and plays video games and opines on the way the world should work vs someone who works as a nurse raising two kids and doesn't have time to opine and instead just wants to put a conservative in office to lower their taxes.

Neither is right or wrong but one has a more measurable external impact.

> It's easy to be open minded when nothing is at stake. As soon as you have something to protect the game changes drastically.

This is true, and we should try to be wiser as we learn more about the world, not just flip to a different flavor of simple-minded reactionary.

I’m confused about your example; who is closed-minded and who is open-minded? (Serious question)

I otherwise disagree with the dichotomy in the first paragraph. It seems to me that one might be open-minded and contributory.

On the topic of “opining vs. voting”: what’s the difference? Additionally, couldn’t the retail employee go vote and have the same sort of measurable external impact?

I guess I’ll attempt to answer the question in the comment: all else being equal, an open-minded person is more valuable to society than a closed-minded one.

A curious choice of examples. What about someone who is open minded and as a result builds or invents something new that substantially improves peoples lives?

Considering the debate is about choice of the entertainment, neither close minded nor open minded are contributing anything. That part is about what people do to relax.

This is a strange dichotomy to posit, full of stereotypes. I suspect that the reality is that contribution to society and open/closed mindedness is not very strongly correlated, and that the correlation that does exist could well run in the opposite to what you suppose.

Children aren't equipped to understand the world to the same depth as adults.

As society becomes more complex and your role in it becomes more specialized, adults too lose the ability to grasp the entire thing.

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