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Comment by andromeduck | Hacker News Reader

Progs: People should feel safe where they work. Workplaces should be free from violence & Harassment. Businesses that can't guarantee employee safety should be shut down.

Businesses: Our workers are being harassed daily, several have been held at knifepoint. Please help.

Progs: That's just an isolated incident. Crime is down.

Businesses: People don't feel safe and there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it so we're shutting down.

Progs: Wow I guess you're just not really committed to this city SMH.

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I agree, but safety should ideally be the responsibility of local government. They have the legal authority to use force to enforce safety.

If the city cannot provide basic safety for its citizens, then corporations WILL leave, and salaried residents will follow them.

They could if they wanted to; they don't want to. And there are a bunch of people who agree with them. So let it fail - it might already be too late, especially with the dominance of remote work for cities like SF to pull out of their death spirals.

Cities always sucked. I always suspected a large amount of people crowing about how great cities are were simply gaslighting because they felt trapped in them. And what do you know? As soon as COVID and remote work gave people a real choice the mass exodus began.

Actions speak far louder than words indeed.

Just because you personally dislike city living, does not mean that the massive number of people who love cities are gaslighting.

People left cities during the pandemic because it was a pandemic. This isn't complicated to unpack, there's no secret motivations here. When there's a highly contagious disease around for a long time, all of the benefits of cities temporarily either closed or became a health risk: public transit, cultural institutions, restaurants, proximity to workplaces, etc. And meanwhile all the drawbacks to cities were amplified: smaller living quarters, higher population density, less access to private outdoor space, harder to have your own car.

In many major US cities, people moved back in droves over the past couple years. Rents soared and rental vacancy rates plummeted. That doesn't line up with your statements at all.

SF may well be in a death spiral, but nothing about this situation can be applied to all cities in general!

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/05/population-sh...

Cities are down or flat - and flat is down since the population in general is still growing. Also not all cities are the same - no way would I classify Phoenix anywhere the same as LA, SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. - totally different structure.

Dense cities suck and people continue to vote with their feet.

That data is from two years ago! I'm describing what's happened since then, which is a stark reversal in a number of major US cities.

If people are fleeing these cities, why are there countless situations in which a single rental unit gets 100+ applications, a bidding war breaks out and ultimately it goes far over asking rent?

You don't like cities, that's fine, but it doesn't mean cities "suck". Different people have different preferences, do you understand this?

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