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Comment by dylan604 | Hacker News Reader

The best RVing advice I was given was to not buy an RV and buy a pull trailer instead which somewhat correlates to the TFA's "bigger is not always better". RVs get horrible gas mileage, and are not easy to drive around. This is why you see a lot of RVs pulling trailers with a smaller car on it. The trailer route allows you to drop off the trailer and then use the pulling vehicle separately. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but people I know that have RVs use them less than the people I know that have trailers.

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I’ve got a 35’ travel trailer I live in usually for 4-6 months at a time for this reason. The benefits:

1. Just one engine to take care of. If you have a motor home, you’re towing a car too. So that’s two sets of drivetrains with all of the maintenance and expense that goes with it.

2. Easy to replace the drive part. If my truck dies I can just get another truck. The trailer lives on. Whole lot easier than dealing with what happens when an RV dies.

3. More maneuverable (though also harder to learn to tow if you’re not already used to it) because it pivots at the point where it connects to the vehicle.

4. Much cheaper in the long run. A diesel 3/4 or full ton truck barely depreciates at all in absolute dollars even in normal times. RVs can’t say that at all. If you buy a camper and a pickup you can probably sell them in five years for most of what you put into them.

>3. More maneuverable (though also harder to learn to tow if you’re not already used to it) because it pivots at the point where it connects to the vehicle.

5th wheel trailers help with this (so I've been told by family members that have them).

Can confirm. I've been fifth wheeling for >20 years. They're much easier to tow and you don't need as much length behind the tow vehicle for an equivalent amount of space (because the bedroom is usually above the hitch point). They're also much easier to hook up in the first place because you don't have to repeatedly back up the truck "blind" to get the tow vehicle into the perfect spot.

Fifth wheels can seem scary to people who are not familiar with them, but the benefits are numerous if you can overcome that fear.

I can also confirm. A fifth-wheel trailer with the proper size truck is very stable; even in severe cross-winds.

I use a gooseneck adapter on my RV since my farm trailer uses that and it's a bit more difficult to hitch up but you get used to it quickly.

Before COVID used fifth-wheels were very cheap -- my current one is a 2016 model I bought used for $17k in 2019. Things are a bit more expensive now but I figure the used market will probably go back to normal by next year.

>repeatedly back up the truck "blind" to get the tow vehicle into the perfect spot.

This problem went away with bumper and tailgate cameras.

They don't affect maneuverability all that much when compared to a standard travel trailer. However, you get a lot more living space in the same effective length due to the portion between your pin and rear truck bumper being now livable space.

They do however TOW quite a bit better than a travel trailer as far as comfort. Going from a 28ft TT to a 40ft Toy Hauler yielded a lot better towing/reduction in driver fatigue over long trips (also went from a half-ton truck to 1-ton, so some differences just there as well).

Wasn't familiar with this concept. Funny though: in my language, "5th wheel (on a car)" refers to someone being as useful as... well, the 5th wheel on a car, i.e., not useful at all. The "on a car" part is often left out.

(Sidenote for anyone wanting to argue the usefulness of 5th wheels: I'm not my language designated responsible for sayings and common phrasings. Also: 5th wheels tend to be the emergency spare wheels - which obviously do have a use.)

Not familiar with that meaning. Around here, we have a phrase ‘third wheel’.

Much cheaper in the long run

That's assuming that you actually want or need a truck (or other tow vehicle large enough to pull your trailer). I went with a motorhome (but don't pull a car) because my other care is a small EV, and I don't really have a use for a truck or other large vehicle.

Same. Got a van and converted to an RV. We don't need a large truck for our daily. The van only gets travel miles on it.

It's still cheaper.

A truck and trailer is nearly always less expensive re: total cost of ownership than a similar motorized setup. It would have cost about the same to buy a truck and trailer than a motor home, and they depreciate far less, and maintenance costs for less.

Your other car doesn't have anything to do with the cost savings. The cost savings exist before even assuming you get some other use or value out of the truck other than a tow vehicle

Maybe that's me being too european but why towing a car? Here in europe most RV users either carry a 50 to 125cc moped or a set of electric bicycles to wander around. Seems like using a car is just a bit excessive for really small trips.

I’ll give you the reasons I bought a small RV over a trailer. There are always trade offs!

1. You can boondock much more discretely. I can move quietly from the driver seat into the sleeping area without letting the neighborhood know anyone is there at all. Also safer in that if someone is bothering me, I can also just drive away.

2. Much faster to setup. I usually just hop out of my rv, connect the power cord and back in. Press a button for leveling out. When you have a trailer and you need to go somewhere, it probably involves disconnecting the hitch which is a ton of work. It’s possible to leave it connected but the length of both the trailer and car is usually too long for a campsite

3. Slightly related to that last one but length. My RV is 24 feet, I can just pull straight into most driveways, press a button and I’m setup. Not a fan of backing trailers into steep or across uneven driveways.

4. Incredibly easy to drive. As other people are discussing letting folks overtake you, it just wasn’t as necessary because you can drive a short rv like a car. Miss a gas station? Just hit that uturn at the signal and go back. Good luck with a trailer or even more fun in a 5th wheel

5. Cross wind. I haven’t driven much with a trailer but in the desert, the cross winds were sorta scary while driving an RV. I have to imagine this is worse with a trailer.

6. Having that back living space easy to reach. Thirsty on that 6 hour drive? Just send a passenger back to the fridge to grab a cold drink or food from the pantry

7. Storage. This can go two ways but I only have a driveway for two cars. My RV fits in one spot. If I had a trailer, I would have to park the truck separately which wouldn’t leave room for another car off the street

8. Battery recharging. When the RV is running, the deep cycle batteries charge. I can let the car idle instead of running the connected generator. There is also a button you can hold down and it uses the deep cycle batteries start the car engine in case the car battery dies. The whole system is integrated so you theoretically can’t have a dead battery on both the engine portion or the rear living space portion

9. Ac, I have had issues with my rear AC, I can start the car and run the AC from the front vents to keep the back area livable

I agree with all benefits you list, why my wife and I want to get a van in addition to our travel trailer eventually.

Just one nit pick, #8 is common and easy to setup with trailers as well. Our truck charges our rv batteries

> 1. Just one engine to take care of. If you have a motor home, you’re towing a car too. So that’s two sets of drivetrains with all of the maintenance and expense that goes with it.

Now you're doing your grocery shopping, sightseeing, and trailhead parking with a dualie pickup truck.

And when one engine breaks, you are stuck...

Same boat.

When you look at the total cost of ownership, cost of maintenance, depreciation, and the relative comfort of driving a new nice diesel truck vs a box van it's a no Brainer. When we're too old amd weak to disconnect the trailer from the truck we'll get a motorized rv, until then we'll stick with our truck and trailer.

RVs get horrible gas mileage, and are not easy to drive around.

Guess what else gets horrible mileage when you hook a trailer to it? I'll put our 26' Sprinter class C's 15mpg up against anything pulling something larger than a pod trailer. And after I did some much-needed suspension upgrades, the thing drives like a car. Best of all, I don't have to pull a trailer. We use ours a fair amount because all we do is toss food in the fridge, turn the key and go.

A lot of the reason I see for pulling a car (often referred to as a "toad". "towed", get it?), is so one doesn't have to roll everything up just to go see the sights.

You forgot the second half of the quote you pulled: "and are not easy to drive around".

And after I did some much-needed suspension upgrades, the thing drives like a car., or am I not understanding your point?

Sorry, I should have quoted that last line:

>A lot of the reason I see for pulling a car (often referred to as a "toad". "towed", get it?), is so one doesn't have to roll everything up just to go see the sights.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. And your point stands; I'm probably one of dozens who has gone to the trouble of fixing the wobbling mess that is most stock RV suspension.

(And if you have a Sprinter-based Class C: Sumo Springs front and rear, Fox rear shocks with more rebound damping, and if I had to do it over I'd skip the larger sway bar.)

That's a huge difference - an RV that does not expand or really hook up is much easier to just jump into and go somewhere than one that folds out until it's larger than a Manhattan apartment.

And both can be supplemented by auxiliary transportation (bikes, motorbikes, small car).

I get close to 15 mpg while towing our 13000 lb travel trailer in our f250 diesel, a lot of motor homes get closer to 5

The thing that has worked for me is going the trailer route with my lightning. You can get 60-70% charge overnight (since I power the trailer with the lightning) with one of the KOA RV outlets included with the camping spot price. KOAs are a bit pricier than a mom and pop but totally worth it for the extra $7-10 you might pay per night because they’re cleaner, have great restroom facilities and I can drive a whole day on the charge.

How is the range when pulling your trailer? From what I read the reduction is steep?

You can do around 100 miles a day on 70% and that’s more than enough for me the way I’m traveling. I have the extended capacity model. It also really depends on the route, with a lot of downhills you can probably get closer to 180 miles on 70%. On a cool night when you can just leave a window open on the trailer (so you don’t need to power it), you can get a full charge and that will get you around 200 miles a day while towing on something that has a decent amount of downhill.

Are you driving one-way? How do you have a route that is a lot of downhills without uphills? Are you starting at the continental divide?

So is your itinerary to go from KOA to KOA in 100 mile increments? Are there ever times when there isn't a KOA ~100 miles in the direction you want to go?

Other campgrounds besides KOAs offer 50 amp service.

I don't have a lightning but have been thinking about getting one. Thanks for the report.

One thing I thought about is that if I want to go someplace farther than 100 miles, I could just drop the trailer in a parking lot, recharge the truck at a nearby DCFC, then re-hook and be on my way. I've done this on occasion to refuel an ICE tow vehicle at a too-small gas station, and I don't see why it wouldn't work with a lightning.

What’s the range on your Lightning without the trailer? What’s the weight of the trailer?

I live full-time in a 25 foot class C; it's just fine for errands (can park in any grocery store parking lot for example).

There are some times where it's annoying to break camp to go to some activity but it's much less annoying than towing a car full time, not being able to back up, etc.

Rented an RV first. Decided it was too big.

When I took the plunge I bought a van (Ford Transit with the high roof) and converted it to an RV myself. The van is light(ish) and powerful enough. We fly up mountains and can park in a normal parking lot space.

I upgraded from trailer to the motorhome and everything turned out to be more trickier on the motorhome.

But there are benefits as well - it’s way more comfortable for passengers, and it’s easier to setup on arrival.

I’m curious, what were the big pain points in setup for the travel trailer?

Depends on the trailer (type and size), but pop ups are required to be popped up before being usable. Sure, some RVs are transformers, but those are usually push button. A lot of RVs are also "self-leveling" now, where trailers tend to me more manual (granted, lots of years since I've been around them so maybe they are self-leveling as well now). So really, the more expensive it is, the easier it is with the reverse being true as well.

For any RV: hook up to shore (and then disconnect) takes time.

For travel trailer it’s harder to park (if you need to back in into tight spot) and level, and then you need to disconnect the vehicle (if you need it to drive around). And then you need to reconnect before leaving. It becomes way easier and faster with experience.

See, we went with the class A specifically because we didn't want to pull a car and Uber made it so easy to get a ride.

Hmm, having difficulties finding you a driver at the Grand Canyon.

I've never had success with a ride service outside of a city, and outside of cities is where RV sites that people are interested in tend to be located.

East coast. We went from Canada and Maine to Florida, but never out west.

It's crazy how different people's experiences can be, while seemingly performing the same activity.

We fulltimed in western US, and I made it a point to minimize RV parks & paid camping, to see get more out into nature. I honestly don't even know what it would be like to just go from RV park to RV park.

Do you not go to national parks and other similar places where you wouldn't be able to get an Uber?

East coast, so not as much no.

This warms my heart as I have a 37 foot travel trailer that I pull with my F250. I love driving my F250.

Me too. We have a 2019 diesel and we tow a 30ft toy hauler. They really designed those trucks well, it has so many great towing centric features that I appreciate more and more. The time with my wife and dogs seeing the country has been priceless. I too love driving my f250

Just get a Tacoma or Tundra and put a Kimbo on it. Drive everywhere, even the cities.

Tacomas have small beds compared to other trucks. It’s all trade offs though. Slide in campers can b nice but are more difficult to decouple from the vehicle than a bumper pull. Bumper pulls or even fifth wheel campers have the benefit of being much larger when people need more space.

Yeah, Tacomas are weird hybrid trucks. It's a full sized truck in every way except the bed. The loss of the smaller truck like the S-10 makes me sad. I miss my S-10.

Not entirely joking, have you considered importing a ute/sport truck from Australia? Or is that too small?

Japan also has the Hilux and the Navara, both turbo diesels similar to a sprinter or similar small diesel van.

I hadn't thought about it at first but I guess those two locations would be right hand driv

I’ve seen diesel f150s in the states, they have a small power stroke which is cool. Also talked to a guy who imported one from Canada.

I wish the American market was more conducive to Japanese diesel vehicles.

Deboss garage is a Canadian mechanic on YouTube and he mentions he went to South Africa to do some work and was expecting there’d be many Hilux but ended up just working on fords (and was disappoint)

Don't get a Tacoma for this - a Kimbo weighs upwards of 1k lbs, right at the limit of a Tacoma's payload capacity. Add in fuel, people, water, anything else heavy and you're above the rated capacity before you know it.

This was my disappointment with my Tacoma. For the size of the truck itself, the towing is very limited. I know they would rather you buy a Tundra, but a Tacoma's towing isn't much better than my '85 Chevy S-10. That's just really sad when you compare the sizes of a Tacoma and an S-10

The new canyon/Colorado's can tow over 7000lbs.

!! Careful to not conflate - payload is not the same as towing capacity. The 2023 Colorado has a payload capacity of 1,310 to 1,610 lbs.

To get much beyond the 1 to 1.5k lbs PAYLOAD capacity, you need to move into a full size truck, ideally an F-250 or equivalent. People putting campers in the back of Tacomas and the like are playing with fire.

Also, you are uninsured if you exceed your vehicle's towing or gross weight rating. It's in the fine print of your insurance binder, something about using the vehicle IAW manufacturer's recommendations.

EDIT: And yes, the insurance company will weigh your equipment after an accident.

TIL. Always read the fine print!

Many camp sites don’t let you leave Kimbo style campers behind. For that reason I prefer a towable.

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