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Comment by elvis10ten | Hacker News Reader

What is the value prop? I usually ask my friends who have tried various drugs about their experiences / how they felt.

I find out for most things I’m able to do them without drugs: introspection, joy, shamelessness, behavioral changes, appreciative for small things, etc.

Yesterday, I just “randomly” texted some of my friends that “I loved them” (they thought I was high). Similarly, when I’m in a club I can dance for 5 hours straight —- almost as if nobody was there. I feel (light) depression sometimes but appreciate that it’s a part of life. Etc.

Maybe the thing I’m missing is an out of body experience or completely “losing control”? But what is the value prop for me is something I can’t answer yet.

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The value prop is the dissolution of your own ego.

We experience reality filtered through our senses and our own concept of "self," which is an incredibly limited view of the world. Imagine being able to see/experience a less filtered version of reality, if only for a short period of time.

Or imagine expanding the frequencies of visible light you can see. That alone could certainly be a catalyst to change your perspective on many things.

It's not so much "losing control" as it is "losing unconscious bias." Loss of control is not the goal.

It's also one of those things that you have to experience to understand, and even then, sober you won't completely understand.

But done right, these experiences can be incredibly important to people. If it's not for you, fine, but it's funny how many people with zero experience with these substances think there can't be anything worthwhile there.

The comedown is more taboo than the high can ever be.

I think this is the root of the social calamity. It’s an unwillingness and inability to be candid about the entire process that perpetuates the situation.

Why did that person lose interest in aspects of life that other people find perplexing? Haircuts or hard shoes, for example.

We can’t advance until we’re willing to address and enhance the wax wings.

> The value prop is the dissolution of your own ego. We experience reality filtered through our senses and our own concept of "self," which is an incredibly limited view of the world.

This was very helpful thanks.

I think for many, it's that they're not able to do those things you do without some form of help. I know many people with major social anxiety that (for better or worse) use alcohol (modest amounts, none are heavy drinkers) to get over that to dance and talk with people.

They've expressed that the experience has lessened the fear for them, and they're better able to do those things (to a small extent at least) without drinking, but would never have been able to so without the initial nudge.

FWIW, I've got a friend that sounds exactly like you - he's pretty much always sober, but is super outgoing, dances all the time, and talks to anyone enthusiastically. He's sometimes been asked to leave clubs we've been at as bouncers assumed he was high on something, and been refused alcohol as bar staff thought he'd had too much already.

To put it simply, the value prop is an experience wildly different than normal experiences.

Can I rephrase this to: It’s a completely different experience that people usually can’t find accurate words to describe to someone that hasn’t been there?

Another question I have, If the experience is short-lived, what is the point?

Life in general is short-lived experience, so what is the point?

Life is the longest experience you will ever have.

No, you can't describe it. Your senses are overwhelmed in ways that don't have a real-world analog so there is no description that you can convey to others that's in any way accurate. It's the entire point of an altered state and is something that has to be experienced.

Many human activities are short-lived mood alterations.

I see. But to my original question, what is the value prop of experiencing this beautiful indescribable short-lived thing?

The experience itself might be a value prop. But I’m more interested in things that can improve my “normal” life. For context, psychedelics sounds interesting to me cause people say they can affect/improve normal life.

> Many human activities are short-lived mood alterations.

Like a vacation I imagine?

> what is the value prop of experiencing this beautiful indescribable short-lived thing?

Why does there need to be a value prop to it? imo the point (of recreational drug use) is experiencing said beauty for the sake of.

I think of it like this: for psychedelics, the change to your brain chemistry is like changing the hardware architecture leading to changes in software behaviour. The fundamental processes of thought in your mind work differently and so the psychological responses you have to everyday sensory stimulus are completely changed in unexpected ways and you can reach conclusions and insights in thought that you hadn't before. This may be temporary but the experience does change how you understand things once you return to normal brain chemistry function. The simple fact of knowing and experiencing how broad the space of modes is in which your consciousness could operate is very powerful in my opinion.

The same value prop as looking at a painting. There is none if you don't want to look.

What’s the “value prop” of increasing your active spectrum of perception?

A book is a temporary experience, yet you still remember what you read after it's done.

> If the experience is short-lived, what is the point?

And this is why animal life went extinct... because what's the point of the orgasm.

> What is the value prop?

It’s fun.

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