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Comment by antigonemerlin | Hacker News Reader

It's exactly what my father did. He took parenting classes at the library, because he wanted to learn more and didn't think that just because he considered himself successful in business and life, he would necessarily understand pedagogy. To that, I am eternally grateful to him.

It's very hard for people to swallow their pride and admit humility, to say "I don't know" and listen to the experts. I have an immense amount of respect for anybody who does, and it is an example I try to live by (though not always successfully).

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Also you were a bit lucky. Over the years there has been an insane amount of bad advise from "health specialists".

I was born in a time when kids were supposed to sleep with their backs up and mothers were supposed to wash their nipples using antibacterial before breastfeeding...!

Sometime before that there was a time (at least around here) were kids were supposed to eat sour cream porridge from early life.

Of course kids died left and right, but the logic was, if so many died following the best practices, how many wouldn't have died if babies were left drinking only milk! (Retold as best I can describe it from what an older person in the family told me.)

All this is before we start talking about parenting fads like "no rules parenting" (not sure about the exact English term) which must have caused untold harm.

So creds to your dad for finding the correct advice and sticking with it.

I'm not at all disagreeing with you, but your examples also demonstrate that a lot of parental advice rely and reflect the era's zeitgeist.

How do we make sure that what you call 'correct advice' is not again a reflection of today's zeitgeist and 50 years from now will make fun of these suggestions in a similar way as of applying antibacterial before breastfeeding?

We don't, and that's why we should encourage parents to diversify their approach as opposed to doing the same set of things mandated from the above.

We're currently undergoing a mass experiment in what happens to children if they are denied sun exposure. I guess we'll discover the outcomes in a few years.

Nordic countries are regularly denied sun.

That's simply untrue: https://www.ndsc.ncep.noaa.gov/uvspect_web/Polar/

Moreover, people of Nordic ancestry tend to have paler skin, which is arguably an adaptation to the low levels of UV.

I really wish schools taught humility.

As a new parents we got tons of books as gifts on pregnancy and baby's first year or two. But then it ended. I continue to buy books on parenting, child psychology, etc. But sadly it seems once baby turns toddler, most parents are done with learning.

One of the most common toxic phrase I keep hearing from these parents is I was raised this way, look I turned out to be fine. Of course, later in the same conversations they will admit they are not fine.

Maybe it is us geeks who love to learn and feel proud to deep dive into whatever we get into.

Ok but if hubris is profitable, why couldn't or wouldn't a private school teach it?

There's alot of people pissing on public schools, whether to sabotage the general public or have special non-standard curriculum only available in private schools, I have no idea.

There is a lot of pissing on public schools because the public has lost sight of why they exist.

There is a lot of religious-y "If you don't go to school you will spend an entirety in hell, er, flipping burgers" or "Those who graduate will make more money – please don't notice that incomes are stagnant and that those with struggles in life that will make them economically unproductive fail/drop out because of the same struggles" nonsense floating out there, but not a lot of concrete details on what value is actually delivered. Other governmental departments put a lot of effort into communicating their value proposition, but schools seem rest on faith.

Which may have been fine a century or two ago when people still remembered why the schools were created, but people now forget. As such, they seek out things they think the schools should do to justify an existence.

Well schools can teach whatever, but if your parent raises you to think education is bullshit liberal brainwashing, you aren't exactly going to listen to it.

For example, plenty of schools teach media literacy, and yet the kids who desperately need it don't pay attention because they are not motivated to learn, nobody encourages them to learn, they and the people around them do not value education on it's own merits, and sure enough ten years later they are posting that Obama is a lizard person.

We have a giant amount of, essentially, knowledge skepticism. These people are convinced that studying something robustly for four years is valueless, and meaningless. Some of them are so "skeptical" they want to homeschool their kids expressly to just teach them the bible and nothing more.

I've read somewhere that just buying a parenting book, even without reading it, can make some people better parents or have a positive influence. Simply thinking about how to be a better parent and showing an interest in improving can lead to self-reflection and conscious consideration of parenting approaches.

While reading the book (attending the course) would likely provide more benefits, just the intention to be a better parent and the willingness to reflect on one's parenting practices may still be valuable step leading to an improvement in parenting abilities.

That's interesting.

A little nitpick : you seem to imply that buying a book is having an influence on parenting skills. I'd argue that's its correlated but does not have a direct influence.

As you said, if you're buying a book it means you're ready for self-reflection, which is what has an impact on parenting.

I'm fairly sure they are referring to a Freakonomics episode (or book). The researchers found "successful" parents, then found various statistics around them.

One of the conclusions was that they "type" of people that would go out of their way to buy a parenting book were already the type of people to do the "right thing" when parenting and the book itself offered no additional support.

I've been around the block a decent number of times, having had a kid way too early at the age of 19. Now I'm 42 and watching friends raise kids, along with many others throughout the years - my kid is 22 now.

The sole thing that is universal is simply giving a shit and putting effort in. If you legitimately care about your kids and live a life to ensure they get the best reasonable outcome you can achieve for them, things are likely to turn out fine.

This goes across countries, continents, cultures, socioeconomics, you name it.

Anything else after that is basically focusing on micros vs. macros. It's amazing how rare this train in parenting actually is.

After that it's largely on society in most places. The suburbanized atomic family expected to handle everything on their own are extreme headwinds for the average parents to push against for example. Only once you get beyond this would I feel "parenting education" would be worthwhile of any serious society effort.

>to say "I don't know" and listen to the experts

Seeing this repeated in this thread. Who are these "experts"? What makes them "experts"? Is there some kind of track record I can look at?

In my case experts are people who raised well adjusted children and are still happily married! It can even be your own parents as much as people (very prideful) don’t want to admit that.

My parents read child psychology and based on that changed their mind on whether spankings were something good for your kids.

They updated their views based on expert peer-reviewed evidence instead of relying on their own armchair theories. I laud them for that. I used to be pro-spanking since I turned out OK and was stunned to later learn my parents regretted it all after what they subsequently learnt. They earnestly wish they had learnt sooner it wasn't necessary.

Yes! The old refrain, "they don't come with a manual!" is such a load of ignorant self-serving garbage. There are plenty of resources to learn from. Ideally, not mommy-bloggers who misrepresent parenting techniques.

At the other end, modern parents have so many restrictions and expectations put on them.

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