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Comment by SkyPuncher | Hacker News Reader

There's so much more than just the engine, though. I'm dealing with a bunch of aging issues on a car right now. A lot of this stuff won't even show for a few years down the road.

* Shocks and struts wear out

* Catalytic converters are a semi-wear item

* In winter states that use salt, rust absolutely destroys things. I've had the exhaust system rust through on all of my vehicles (simply happens with age).

* Seat cushions, steering wheel, and other high touch surfaces wear. Likely not an issue _now_, but means a few years down the road, these things will be broken.

* Engine accessories - belts, starters, alternators, pumps, etc. Everything is just a bit closer to it's failure point.

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Most of these issues aren't particularly expensive on their own, but they add up. Further, your expected maintenance is wildly different.

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Salt (sodium chloride) is pretty rare anymore. It’s more expensive than another option.

Liquid magnesium chloride is the goto in most states now, and you’ll be happy to know it’s even worse!

Real table salt is never to be used as an ice melter on streets. “Salt” here is used in the chemical definition I would think.

The UK uses 2 million tonnes of rock salt a year for road gritting, which is basically dirty table salt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt It's still a mix often times but it's totally salt in some areas still.

There is a salt mine up the road from me. The trucks start lining up for miles waiting for loads any time there is a winter storm expected.

The only difference between that salt and table salt is that there is additional processing to the salt done when destined for table salt to ensure purity and shape. So, yes, they don't literally use table salt, but it is the same raw ingredient.

I know of a company importing salt here in Norway. They get boats filled with salt, and when doing the import customs declaration they have to decide if that batch of salt is going on the dinner table or on the roads, because we have half VAT on food and ingredients.

Same salt, different VAT rate depending on use.

Rock salt / sodium chloride is absolutely used as everyone is pointing out.

Liquid sodium chloride is also used in some places.

Neither of those are magnesium chloride and the distinction is important imo.

Liguid sodium chloride? Melting point is 1000C so I doubt that.

Allow me to introduce to you solutions.

For a practical experiment… add salt to water. You’ve made a brine. That is all.

Well, yeah, but I've never heard anyone call that "liquid sodium chloride"

I disagree that it's worse. From everything I've read about mag chloride it's still corrosive but much less so than traditional road salt.

I work in automotive. I think it’s worse but in a different way.

Sodium chloride attacks exposed metal pretty badly.

Magnesium chloride seems to attack powdercoat, e-coat (electro dipped, all cars parts), and nickle coatings, as well as clear coat wet paint seemingly worse. Which then leaves spots exposed to rust. It seems to hang on to the vehicle and attack the entire winter. I’ve found that areas that switch to mag chloride have worse looking vehicles, so, imo, worse.

It’s also pretty awful for the environment.

It gets complicated.

The magnesium chloride ice melt (which contains other compounds too) has lower toxicity than sodium chloride. That is particularly important for plants and pets.

Rust inhibitors were things in road salt spreads in the past, but it is found that they can be very harmful to aquatic life ( https://onepetro.org/NACECORR/proceedings-abstract/CORR96/Al... ) so now they're generally not used ( https://www.cga.ct.gov/2014/rpt/2014-R-0001.htm )

Everyone in the rust belts should be putting fluid film/woolwax/krown under their vehicles. I think decades of shady "rust proofing" sprayers that were either a scam or did more harm than good (plastic/rubber under coatings) have put people off of doing this but there are products now that work well.

Yea, I thought as much when I saw canadian cars for the first time, coming from a country that also salts liberally (but not with magnesium afaik). Ten year old cars of all makes having completely rusted through wheel arches, just insane.

Wish they’d use something biodegradable like peas or beans.

Cheese To The Rescue: Surprising Spray Melts Road Ice - https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/01/21/264562529...

> This winter, a Wisconsin county is fighting icy roads with a homegrown product: liquid cheese brine. Tens of thousands of gallons of the stuff are used each year along with road salt, according to officials in Polk County.

Turning to beet juice and beer to address road salt danger - https://apnews.com/article/science-bb34e41bb95a4dfa85301621e...

> CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — Looking to strike a balance between ice-free roads and clean waterways, public works departments around the country are working to cut their salt use in winter by slathering the roadways with beet juice, molasses, and even beer waste to make them safer.

I'm in Ohio and last winter, the trucks were dumping grains of salt, not liquid.

Rock salt is ok down to some temperature, after that your locals will likely switch to mag chloride.

NaCl is falling out of favor though. I didn’t say it was never used.

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