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Comment by forty | Hacker News Reader

Sometimes it works.

Recently I read that in France (where I live) there is this rule that all online sellers selling to customers must pay VAT even if abroad.

Someone pulled a trick along the lines of: taking orders from customers then ordering stuff on behalf of the customer, then claim "we don't sell stuff, we just order things on behalf of the customer", and then the other seller is not ordered from by the customer so by the book they are also not concerned by VAT (so in the end no VAT is paid)

And it seems it was confirmed being legal...

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Where did you read that? In my experience, when ordering from outside the EU (I only have experience with the US, but I don't think it matters) I'm usually on the hook for import duties and VAT when I receive the package. I have to pay those separately, and not to the retailer but to the delivery company.

The point is that, it's technically the end customer who pays the VAT. The seller collects it, on behalf of the state.

See my answer to your sibling

Do you have some links ? For me you can't sell without VAT if the person doesn't have a VAT number. In your exemple they don't seel a good but a service to order the good, VAT still need to be paid.

I read that in le monde (in French, paywalled I think)

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2023/07/11/des-...

They call the intermediate "dropshippers" (even in the French text)

I don't have a subscription to Le Monde, so can't read the whole article.

IANAL, but the linked EU directive doesn't seem to say that the seller has to charge VAT at the moment of sale, only that VAT is due, even in the case of an intermediary.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

I've just done a quick check on the site of B&H, an US-based reputable electronics store. If you try to send something somewhat expensive to France, they have the option of handling import duties and taxes or to handle it yourself.

Either they are the customer and must pay it, or if they are legally not, they can be asked for the list of customers so that they can all be fined, which will lead to customers suing them.

Usually that's how these "lifehacks" around regulations wind up playing out.

The regulators move slowly so it looks like it works for awhile, but someone winds up going bankrupt or to jail eventually.

Interesting, here in Poland when customs decided to tax my package i was ordered to also pay VAT on the product

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