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Comment by DragonStrength | Hacker News Reader

I left SF a year ago but had Cruise and Waymo cars in my neighborhood constantly. They were a total nuisance. They'd jerk towards pedestrians in crosswalks leading to this uncomfortable standoff where no one in the neighborhood would ever step in front of one. I'd wager any stats here are way lower than real incidences as I was nearly hit multiple times and never got to the "report it" stage as there are so many barriers to doing so.

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I have similar experiences (as a pedestrian) crossing in front of Cruise cars, especially at 4-way stops when there aren't crosswalks explicitly drawn. It's odd because the cars are generally excruciatingly cautious, but for some reason as I'm crossing they seem to calculate exactly how fast they can take off such that they pass me right as I'm clear of their path -- whereas most drivers might wait for the pedestrian to reach the sidewalk before passing.

What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up? But also, given that they have all those cameras, I wouldn't dare do anything "unusual" like that because it'd probably run me over and say it was my fault, and here's the proof.

I don't doubt the cars' ability to calculate it exactly, but it's a different experience for sure.

that sounds very harrowing. I don't think we have any of these cars in Chicago, but I'd be hesitant to push my daughter's stroller in front of one...

Sounds risky.

I thought California law was to let the pedestrian fully cross, but apparently not:

> In California, the law does not state that a driver must wait for the pedestrian to fully exit the crosswalk or the street before they proceed on their way in their lane. A pedestrian must be safely out of the driver's path of travel for them to begin driving again.

If you had to wait for all pedestrians to be out of the crosswalk, there's plenty of places where turning would be essentially impossible -- and there's an argument to be made that anywhere with that much foot traffic ought to be turned into a pedestrian-only zone, well, right now there are both cars and pedestrians and requiring the crosswalk be clear before going would make things even worse.

NY prohibits driving in the occupied half of a crosswalk. i.e. from center line to the curb. This is almost impossible to obey in NYC with heavy ped flows but it is a sensible way to combat drivers clipping you from behind.

> whereas most drivers might wait for the pedestrian to reach the sidewalk before passing.

You're joking right? No one wait for you to clear the street. Hell most driving start advancing when you're going to be clear by the time they make it to you.

> What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up?

Same thing a human would; hit you or slam on the brakes. They'll just do it faster and harder.

Not in San Jose. A few drivers will only wait for you to cross their half but they are an asshole minority and at any rate are not aiming to minimize things.

> whereas most drivers might wait for the pedestrian to reach the sidewalk before passing.
You're joking right? No one wait for you to clear the street. Hell most driving start advancing when you're going to be clear by the time they make it to you.
> What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up?

Same thing a human would; hit you or slam on the brakes. They'll just do it faster and harder.

The real world isn't like a Mad Max film.

> The real world isn't like a Mad Max film.

I see you've never driven in Los Angeles...

So it's worth remembering that when the pundits say their self-driving car will be better than human drivers- that's a really low bar! Similarly, when they say it'll obey all the road rules, it means they will game them.

I have the opposite experience, I live by a bunch of 4way stops that drivers get very pushy about if you try to use as a pedestrian. The driverless cars never put me in a dangerous situation at those intersections but human driven cars do very frequently.

> What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up?

That would be an extremely stupid thing to do in San Francisco. I would not trust drivers here at all to pick it up. I would just wait until all the cars were gone.

For what it's worth, my own anecdata is the opposite. My neighborhood (alamo square / wester addition) is rife with Cruise cars and I usually pass 2-3 every night while walking my dog for 30 minutes. They've been, without fail, polite and normal "drivers." I've not felt any concern walking in front of them in crosswalks or biking alongside them when leaving the neighborhood.

I live in the same neighborhood and saw one driving on the sidewalk a few weeks ago.

My issues were mostly between Divisadero and Masonic north of the Panhandle, so different strokes. I was doing two half-hour walks per day during most of the pandemic, either to GGP or Alamo Square, so that's the context of my anecdata. Of course, no discounting they're just better now :)

They need a fake hand to rise up and wave over the steering wheel so pedestrians will know they’re waiting for them.

There's a lot of research on possibilities here! eHMIs (external human-machine interfaces) are the term.

https://www.theturnsignalblog.com/blog/ehmi/

https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/21/9/2912

It's unclear that there's a consensus on something that reliably works across cultural contexts, though - which, to be fair, is also a problem with human-human interactions!

A visual indicator the car sees a pedestrian would be helpful.

Such a good point. With human drivers I get very nervous of I cross in front them and haven't made eye contact with them. We need that for cars

New sport.. anyone in need of cash throws caution to the wind and temps ai cars to hit them for the payout.

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