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Comment by blamazon | Hacker News Reader

Cars once upon a time required a secure storage space for security. Technology improved, comprehensive insurance became a social norm, etc, and now you can just snug it against a curb, hop out of your car and press a button and generally not worry about theft, but if it does happen you're covered.

Why can't e-bikes be this way? My answer: they can and are, just not all of them yet.

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Technology improved, but cars one main advantage. To steal a 4000lbs car one needs either a tow truck, or to enable the engine, or a lot of guys to push.

To steal a 15 lbs bicycle, one need only pick it up and walk away.

E bikes are a lot heavier than 15 lbs

I am reminded of this reddit post and it's picture https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13og4mc/thats_one_.... Most e-bikes have a lock on the battery that can be toggled to cut out the motor, though I think it can still be pedaled, but this is why you always lock through the frame and the the back wheel...

Still plenty carrayable by one person.

Same issue with motorcycles and people just buy insurance, which you can do with bikes too.

I can pick up a bicycle and walk away with very little effort. They're usually less than 20lbs.

My motorcycle is 500lbs wet. Close to 700 with full cases.

Are you really suggesting it's just as easy stealing a 500-700lb bike as a 20lb bike?

For most bikes and mopeds two guys and a truck is all you need to steal it. If you can lean it up after laying it out, theres probably a way for someone to leverage it onto a truck bed. Maybe just knocking it over onto a furniture dolly and pushing it up a ramp.

That all sounds like a good bit more work than a single person with a bolt cutter.

So you do agree with me, that it's a lot more work stealing a motorcycle than stealing a bicycle?

60 years ago it wasn't hard to hot wire a car. Car locks are very good, 20 years ago encryption was added so you can't start the car withour the authorized keys. Decades before that the lock was attached to the steering wheel so you couldn't drive even if you srarted.it. and car locks are hard to pick (unlike many house locks)

... btw, since we know how to make locks that are harder to pick, why _don't_ we use them basically everywhere including houses. Are they a lot more challenging to manufacture?

I'm not an expert, but my understanding it is about tolerance and quality control, both of which increase costs. It is rare for someone to pick a lock to get into a house so it isn't worth the costs.

All locks can be picked, but it takes more skill for the better ones. Modern encryption is (so our math says, though i'm not sure what the limits are) essentially unbreakable, and so a better solution.

When theft via lock picking becomes an issue, people will buy those locks. I doubt it will be an issue as long as bolt cutters and batter powered angle grinders exist.

In a practical sense the lock is an indicator of limited access.

The ability to gain entry is trivial given a few minutes and intent.

The locks in my house are there so the glass has to be broken. The glass is there to give me enough time to respond.

If someone is picking my lock they are involved in a hit, not theft.

Good question. My apartment in Europe had a steel plate door with a gargantuan lock that with 10 latch points. My apartment in the US has a cheap ~$30 commercial deadbolt you could defeat by pushing really hard. I looked at getting one of those locks and the price was astronomical.

I was working on adding a deadbolt to an exterior door. I started doing a lot of fine measurements to drill it out because I didn't want to crack the glass which was kind of close to the edge of the door.

Which I then questioned what the hell am I doing adding a deadbolt to a door with a massive window. If someone wants to get in, they're gonna get in. The only thing that really keeps my family safe is the fact the vast majority of my neighbors don't want to hurt me, not some lock on my door.

Actually it is probably easier to punch through the walls bypassing the door completely as opposed to breaking the glass. Though glass does break and so that is what someone will try.

The vast majority of my exterior is brick, but the area in question is just vinyl siding so you're not entirely wrong. A few more layers to get through: the vinyl siding, foam backing on the vinyl, vapor barrier, old cellulose insulation, then interior wall.

Just further shows the futility of putting an expensive lock on a regular home door. If someone wants in, they'll get in. The lock is definitely more of a "please don't come in" than anything real.

Locks keep honest people and opportunistic criminals out. A high end lock does you no good if it's left unlocked or an employee props open the door with a chair. If someone is willing to break and enter the lock is no longer the weakest point.

Cameras and alarms help a bit more.

The possibility of someone being home or men with guns responding is a big deterrent. Smash and grabs are usually done on cars not homes.

Good ebikes are/will be 75-150lbs.

wtf, no? How would a 150 lbs ebike even look like?

That's an electric moped.

Same cargo ebikes near this weight. I have the radrunner plus and it's 75 lbs.

Sur Ron light bee X is 110 lbs Sur Ron ultra bee is 187 lbs

So I guess it would look, almost exactly, halfway between these

The Light Bee X and Ultra Bee are full on electric motorcycles though, not exactly ebikes.

I think technically mopeds, but yes. It's a weird and convoluted space now. Just as an example -- people will purposely install bicycle pedals on Surrons to make it look like they are just assisted ebikes or something.

https://currentebikes.com/wp-content/uploads/california_elec...

Car theft is rather more policed because a 2-ton 100mph+ car can easily kill or cause a lot of damage in the wrong hands.

Bike theft is down there with shoplifting or recreational drug use when it comes to policing priorities. But when a bike is stolen, often a person is losing an important means of transportation, so perhaps it should be taken more seriously.

Not going to happen in a ‘soft on crime’ society, though.

I propose, somewhat tautologically, that the primary reason why car theft is generally well policed (in USA, where my lived experiences have primarily been) is that it's generally a small enough problem for most police departments to get their arms around because of basic anti theft technology.

I believe the Kia/Hyundai debacle of the last few years supports this idea:

> So far this year, Minneapolis police have received 1,899 Kia and Hyundai theft reports, nearly 18 times the number for the same period in 2022. [1]

[1]: https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-tiktok-theft-stolen-8...

It may be that car theft is more policed because of political pressure from insurance companies, and because cars were typically more valuable than bikes.

Fighting car theft lowers insurance rates. But virtually nobody insures a bike.

I would also imagine most police officers in USA patrol their jurisdiction in automobiles, not on bicycles. Number 2 is probably motorcycles.

I would also venture to guess that most officers don't cycle to work or in their free time.

Indeed, but their priorities are set by their departments and cities.

I don't think this is a "soft on crime" question. As you say, bikes are a low priority. But bikes were long considered a low priority in things like road design. The lack of bike lanes isn't getting better because people are getting tougher on crime. It's because we're getting rid of some of the classist nonsense that treats people able to afford cars as more important than those who couldn't. And also because bike commuting has become a middle- and upper-class phenomenon.

Car theft, at this point, is mostly a law enforcement issue. A very active, motivated anti-theft team can shut down theft rings and at least keep it down to a dull roar, versus almost total negligence in cities like San Francisco.

I'm particularly fond of theft magnets, very attractive stealable cars equipped with cameras and remote shutdown and a team watching from a distance. Park it at a mall or on some side street, wait for the trap to be sprung, and poof! One less thief on the loose.

Bikes, not so sure. A good U-lock and a plastic-coated cable are a start, but these can be defeated within a minute by a professional.

I just heard on one of the YT China channels that people are indeed taking their batteries with them when they park their bikes, not so much out of fear of common theft, but because the police are empowered to confiscate e-bikes for a variety of infractions and it's almost impossible to get them back.

Bait bikes are also a thing. E.g.: https://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/09/irvine-orange-and-othe...

I also saw Mark Rober speak yesterday, I think with Allen Pan. He mentioned doing some sort of video where they built bait bikes and used them to sucker thieves. And I think Rober said they are doing another bike theft project where they'll be trying to trace things to the higher ups.

So I think the lack here is more that of a motivated anti-theft team. But motivation may be hard to come by. Not only are bike thefts notoriously low priority, only 21.5% of SFPD officers actually live in SF: https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sf-police-firefighters-supe...

Quality of life crimes matter a lot less when it's not your quality of life.

I put a two-way car alarm on my ebike and it works exactly like this.

Agreed. People forget that until the late-90s, many were still buying theft protection devices they installed every time they exited the vehicle.

All bikes are like that today. Just put it on your renters or homeowners insurance.

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