Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

Comment by fragmede | Hacker News Reader

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Why frame it as a downgrade? Bigger isn't necessarily better. Cars are a highly regulated product, with lots of testing that happens, and there are evolving standards. In a crash, I'd much rather be in a 2009 Chevrolet Malibu and not a 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air, watch this video for why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6oefRKWmY.

Where the 2023 Honda Accord has a rating of "good"* from IIHS on the updated side impact test, and NHTSA's rating for the 2022 model for side crash is 5 stars** (2023 data not yet available), it seems entirely likely that your friend would also still be alive today if they were also in a Honda Accord. The arms race for bigger and bigger vehicles is just that - an arms race. I don't want to walk or drive in the world of Mad Max, where everyone drives semi-trucks and have spikes all over them to protect the inhabitants of a vehicle.

It should also be noted that bigger isn't automatically better. For the 2022 side impact test by IIHS, the Honda Passport, Honda Pilot, Hyundai Palisade, Jeep Wrangler 4-door, Kia Telluride and Nissan Murano SUVs all received "marginal" ratings***.

Prior to 2011, SUVs weren't even tested for side impact ratings.

* https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/accord-4-door-sed...

** https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2022/HONDA/ACCORD/4%252520DR/F...

*** https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/most-midsize-suvs-perform-w...

Unfortunately weight _is_ generally a predictor of occupant safety.

IIHS says:

“Frontal crash test results can't be used to compare vehicle performance across weight classes.… Given equivalent frontal ratings, the heavier of two vehicles usually offers better protection in real-world crashes.”

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/about-our-tests

I agree. My dad always told me that, in a hypothetical situation where I'm going to crash and I have a choice in the kind of car I'm driving, to always pick the bigger car than the other guy.

Bigger cars are safer, for better or worse. Those Ford F-350s will, in general, survive crashes and protect the occupants better than something like a Toyota Camry.

Hasn't this caused an arms race of sorts where these trucks get bigger and bigger to the point where now some models have worse visibility than enormous M1 Abrams tanks: https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visib...

It's definitely one of the reasons cars in general have gotten bigger, you can't deny that better survivability in crashes is good marketing material. Trucks are just among the larger of them.

Yes, but it's only better survivability in two-car crashes, and it makes the overall survivability worse. The social cost is greater than the private benefit.

IOW, it's a market failure (externality).

It's this exact line of thinking that explains why there's an arms race going on - not just in larger vehicles, but a literal one where carrying a gun makes one person safer but almost everybody else around them less safe.

I don't remember the exact stats, but something like 30-50% of lethal crashes happen alone, without another vehicle involved, because drivers lose control of a vehicle.

If you hit a bridge pillar or drive off a cliff, it doesn't matter how heavy your vehicle is.

I'd for these types of crashes it's much better to have a small, nimble vehicle that is more stable and doesn't crash in the first place rather than a huge truck with poor grip that tips over if you corner too fast.

Well, unless you hit another F350.

That doesn't really work in practice though.

I've seen the aftermath of a Renault Megane hitting a Ford Explorer, and it wasn't pretty. The Megane was a writeoff, with significant intrusion into the passenger area. The Explorer looked like it had been de-orbited rather than centre-punched by a small hatchback, with the bodywork in four pieces and parts scattered for about 100m. The occupants did not fare well, and indeed none of the small pieces of the occupants spread around fared well either.

Well if you ignore damage caused to the target you hit no wonder.

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