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Comment by loehnsberg | Hacker News Reader

Germany has a lot of things going for it, but it‘s weaknesses become really apparent at the moment:

- finance happens elsewhere, no world-leading banks anymore, meaning it‘s difficult to get capital, unless you‘re big corp

- no natural ressources to speak of, so the only indirectly tradable good is ingenuity, unfortunately too little happening in tech or services

- energy prices have balooned, which costs its industrial base dearly

- China has become a testy trading partner, as they now have transfered most of the know-how to DIY

- starting a company is almost surely easier elsewhere (except for maybe France, Italy, or Spain)

- mostly mediocre universities. the best academics are typically leaving and don‘t look back.

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The biggest weakness of Germany is its unending love affair with the totalitarian Russia, a setup lasting since centuries and bringing misery to millions.

Germany has a few premier universities, but they still haven't recovered from the Nazi era.

German universities tend to have an idiosyncratic research group structure that tends to underpay promising young talent, and mires that talent in a few extra loops of bureaucracy. A few of them are introducing a more "standard" tenure-track, which will help young academics make a like-for-like comparison.

It's unlikely that they'll be pay-competitive with American R1s, though.

> Germany has a few premier universities, but they still haven't recovered from the Nazi era.

Dude, under which rock have you been hiding?! How does "not recovered from the Nazi era" manifest in your opinion?

Power, prestige, and productivity. Before the Nazis fucked up Germany its universities were better regarded than America's. Now, they're not as well regarded. They lost a lot of capability and prestige, and gained a little back. They haven't recovered to where they were.

What rock have I been working under? I've spent the last decade in American and German labs my dude.

Göttingen. We can know and we shall know.

There is nothing left of the Nazi era in Germany. The leadership was executed in the Nuremberg show trials and the scientists were given an offer they couldn't resist or were outright kidnapped by the Soviet Union and United States. Nazi scientists made the US space program successful.

Show trials?

Not nearly enough executions happened that should have.

Who was left out?

You mentioned them yourself. Operation Paperclip. These monsters got to live normal lives when they should have been thrown into a cave and the entrance demolished.

"Nothing left" isn't right. There are memorials, monuments, and several notable absences. Emmy Noether died in America, after all.

What memorials and monuments honoring the Nazis are left in Germany? There are none.

The last time I was in Berlin I found the Siegessäule where Speer moved it, largely as Speer modified it.

But less flippantly: the monuments and memorials are to people lost during the Nazi era.

You are aware that much of the research is done outside of universities?

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en.html

https://www.mpg.de/en

https://www.helmholtz.de/en/

Sure, and their Federal labs are well-respected too:

https://ptb.de/

My post was about universities, not every research position available in the country.

and my post was that universities may have different tasks.

1) Deutsch Bank ruined their rep.

2) talented/skilled workers?

3) They committed energy suicide by removing the nuclear option

4) What?

5) True

6) Seems to be happening all over though, degradation of education

> 2) talented/skilled workers?

In three places: Munich, Hamburg, Berlin. Everywhere else it's pretty difficult to find solid people.

> 4) What?

Haven't you noticed how much of the auto industry know-how moved to China? German auto industry bets on China to grow.

This is a gross misclassification, and both talent and motivation are not geographically constrained in any way. I dont see how you can justify an assertion like that.

You know what, on a second thought I agree it is a misclassification. I was commenting from the place where I sit. It depends on the industry. Different talents in different places settling close to the centers relevant to the industry in question. However, across all industries companies struggle to find enough talent.

Not constraint, yet Audi, a famous Germany automaker can’t build its own EV platform, can’t even use its parent’s platform (VW) and has to resort to buying it from China. That shows how slow and risk adverse the Germany’s car industry has become.

https://electrek.co/2023/07/20/chinas-saic-motor-confirms-pa...

The education system in Germany is totally broken. One selects a path at a very early stage in life. If that goes wrong, it is extremely difficult to switch to another job or education path. Almost every industry requires three to five year education. While in that education, one can work as an Azubi before Ausbildung. The pay as an Azubi is atrocious. Switching industries is really difficult. The country has chronic problems with Handwerker, bakers, doctors, teachers, skilled labor, and so on. This protective education system doesn’t make things easier. It’s almost impossible to earn your title through experience. All of that successfully prevents skilled workers moving between industries.

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