Comment by monlockandkey | Hacker News Reader

Comment by monlockandkey | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I want to address the use of terminology like Whabi, hardliner, conservative, literalists etc. It is a orientalists way of looking at Islam. Already it bakes in the narrative that not changing your religion to align with western values = stubborn = conservative = backwards = bad

Islam does not change and will not change. It is the highest level of cognitive dissonance to believe in the creator of the heavens and Earth. That has created the universe and everything in it, yet human legislation and morality is better and conginizant to what God has given. This is a contradiction for those who subscribe to "progressive" Islam.

A common quip against religion is saying how they are following a "man made religion". It becomes man made if it is free to change with the times. Things can be added and subtracted. This is really wrong and that is how you end up with humans corrupting religion.

This is why Muslims are serious in their religion. They do not wish to bend and water down their religion with whatever mortality is currently trending.

The way you use orientalist seems like a strawman to me. I am all about being careful of orientalism as a search for exotism rather than serious intellectual and spiritual inquiry. But using terms such as "wahabi" or "conservative" is not necessarily judgmental (maybe a bit in OP's message, but even there I would avoid overinterpreting) - they just describe a particular stance regarding the scriptures. While it is true that muslim literalism has bad reputation in the West, using the term can be done outside of a progressist normative framework.

My understanding is that Wahabism is a very important aspect of modern Islam, even in countries of Soufi tradition, auch as Morocco. As a mystically inclined person it rubs me the wrong way, but I am fine with anyone deciding to follow that path.

It seems however to be fundamentalist in the bad sense of the word to assume that the Wahabi doctrine is the only proper interpretation of Islam. Wahabism is a relatively recent (and human!) creation, and multiple and conflicting interpretations of the scriptures are part of Islam since its very beginning - just take the Shia vs Sunni interpretations as an example. Even assuming that the Q'ran is God's word and the ultimate truth, we are still only imperfect humans trying to interpret it. Any interpretation in itself can only be imperfect, and it is the sign of a healthy tradition when conflicting interpretations can coexist and cross-fertilize. The humility that is part of devotion should also allow to be humble about one's own capacity to understand the truth.

Thank you for your reply.

The thing is that Muslims don't follow Whabisim. They follow the Qur'an and the authentic teachings of the prophet.

Sufis in Arabia were worshiping saints and graves. Basically completely off the rails and contradictory to the Quran. Abdl-al-Wahabb called for people to return back to Islam through the Qur'an and authentic teachings of the prophet. The people who opposed this called him a Whabi.

The proper doctorine of Islam is the Qur'an and the authentic teachings of the prophet. Going beyond this is man made corruption of the religion.

An analogy would be that the the equation for general relativity is e=mc² . Suppose over time this was distorted to e=abc³ . If I come and correct people to return to Einstein's papers and understanding of relativity, I haven't create a new interpretation of phsyics. If people realise this and go back to the original equation, physicists are following Einstein, not myself.

Muslims do not care about the term or person Whabi because it is irrelevant to practicing Islam.

Muslims who like to diligently practice Islam from the Qur'an and the prophet are Muslims, not Whabbi.

Pretty sure I just spotted the wahabi. Not sure why wahabis are against the term wahabi. Wahabis follow Islam according to the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab right?

If a Muslim prays 5 times a day, fasts in Ramadan, has a beard, wears a hijab. Practices Islam according to the Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet, are they a Whabbi?

It has become a derogatory term to describe practicing Muslims and the "good" Muslims are the ones who are liberal in their views and follow western values. Otherwise they are so called "conservative", "Whabi, "hardliner".

Muslims do not know who this person is. He is a footnote in history and people do not learn/practice Islam from his books. They do it through the Qur'an and the authentic teachings and actions of the prophet which is the authoritative source on Islam.

This is my frustration. A boogeyman word to describe normal Muslims when they practice Islam as it was practiced by the prophet 1400 years ago.

>If a Muslim prays 5 times a day, fasts in Ramadan, has a beard, wears a hijab.

This is not what makes someone a wahabi, you're strawmanning. These qualifications you mention are basically common denominators among all muslims. Again, what makes someone a wahabi is having beliefs as taught by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. For example, being against the maddhab system.

It is not an "orientalist" way of looking at Islam. These are real distinctions that exist. For example, Wahhabism is distinctly opposed to and critical of a lot of the rest of the Sunni Muslim tradition and intellectual history, many adherents of which (and it sounds like this group includes you)[1] have started to label themselves "ahl al-sunnah" in order to distinguish themselves from numerous other positions, ranging from violent Islamic extremists with extremely literalist interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah to highly reformist modernists of various persuasions.

At the end of the day, much of what anyone labels as Islam is highly man-made. To claim otherwise is to be either extremely unfamiliar with the Islamic intellectual tradition and the religion's history or disingenuous. I say this as an adherent of mainstream Sunni Islam.

[1] This was a mistake; as the other person said, you are probably a Wahhabi.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com