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Comment by Terr_ | Hacker News Reader

> I think we changed our thinking. I think the world has mostly accepted the "good enough" versus "perfect". [...] For example, to win [a famous baguette competition] many spend a lifetime perfecting their craft.

Hasn't it always been that way, though?

Decades or centuries ago we've been doing things (e.g. breadmaking) with fewer resources and worse tools and tighter margins, so "good enough" was probably even more important, rather than less. Great works were often made despite those limits, rather than in concert with them. Surely the techniques and investments used in competition are not the same ones that baker would use to feed a large hungry crowd.

"Perfect" probably only showed up either (A) where that's just the next frontier for a successful professional to stay engaged in their craft or promote their brand and (B) products commissioned by figurative if not literal royalty.

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My attention span is making me re-read your comment to decipher whether I agree or disagree. Jury is still out on this one :)

Anyways, over a decade back, I was watching a recording of a musical artist from either the 70s or 80s, and was surprised at the quality of the presentation (audio, music, harmony within the team) and was thinking on the same lines - good vs good enough, and how this team working in the 70s made musical magic.

I think the constraints those days made the masters really practice practice practice so that they could be great at the spur of the moment. A lot of people today may be more expert in synthesizing music so they can take a second's worth of snippet here, 5 seconds of snippets there, and eventually make something good, but it is all editing and they may not be able to do that live, but the old timey greats had to perform live, and for that they had to be great.

I am not saying no one does live music nowadays, quite the contrary, just saying that a lot of great music comes from people who never do live music, and that is because they can afford the luxury of 'editing' (which is kinda similar to divided attention span). Similarly, for the baker once the bread has gone bad there is nothing they can do but to start over, and that would be the incentive to get everything right.

I think my underlying thesis probably renders to something like:

The idea that people in the past had personalities that valued the pursuit of perfection more-highly than now is often assumed, but seldom is good evidence given to support it. In many cases it may be explained by survivorship-bias or by applying inaccurate modern assumptions about the relative costs of different materials/labor and the prestige/rarity of events.

> Anyways, over a decade back, I was watching a recording of a musical artist from either the 70s or 80s, and was surprised at the quality

Example "humans weren't fundamentally different" hypothesis: When it is more expensive to make multiple attempts, people invest more effort into making sure they do very good attempts, in order to avoid the downside risk. This does not mean they would not have gladly chosen an average-result if dramatically lower production costs were possible. Therefore the difference does not stem from a change in mentality, but from economic factors.

___________

It's kind of like looking at airplanes of the 1950s, with beds and champagne and caviar, and ruefully comparing them to the ones of the 2020s.

Is it because airlines became greedier? Did the average passenger (in the same income-bracket) lose their desire for fine things? Nah: It's probably because once you remember to adjust for inflation, those 1950s passengers were paying $7,300 per flight instead of today's $600.

[0] https://www.eastcoastdaily.in/2021/01/02/1950s-when-airplane...

> The idea that people in the past had personalities that valued the pursuit of perfection more-highly than now is often assumed, but seldom is good evidence given to support it.

I think its not hard to show that people have come to prioritize the low cost of goods/services at the cost of quality as a way of artificially propping up lifestyle habits as available disposable income goes down.

An appliance like a refrigerator or clothes washer had to be good in 1960 not just because of its cost (which in today's money accounting for inflation is huge) but because consumers had the ability to financially demand it.

But if household disposable incomes go down (for a myriad of reasons), to where even two adult fulltime earners can barely tread water, a "good" appliance is unthinkably cost prohibitive in the short term. A cheap one that will barely outlast the warranty is their solution. And when it fails (and it will) you go buy another and it goes to a landfill.

Its like the typical exmaple of the poor person who buys shitty work boots that only last a few months because they can't drop a couple hundred up front for ones that will last decade(s).

In the US (can't speak for elsewhere), your 1950s stereotypical middleclass sitcom style family lifestyle died around 1970. Its been kept going ever since by the combos of decreasing quality wherever possible while using debt to wallpaper over the lack of micro-economic sustainability (hence the huge % of the population who has no real savings, little or no retirement investments, and will loose their home if they get a bad medical diagnosis).

    hence the huge % of the population who has no real savings, little or no retirement investments, and will loose their home if they get a bad medical diagnosis

Was this not also true in earlier generations?

Also, most people from highly developed countries with sound social safety net (G7 and close friends) do not have such a doom-and-gloom outlook. I assume your view comes from the US.

    where even two adult fulltime earners can barely tread water

This is certainly not true in the vast majority of G7 and close friends -- only US.

Are you making your bed everyday?

I think we used to strive more for perfection. Changing sheets, ironing, folding clothes.. But also in trade, just look at all the ornaments.. attention to details, caring for tools / materials. When was the last time you got a suit made?

At some point we compromised and slapped a shiny finish on it. I blame advertising.

Why are you so certain it must be an personality change from unclear causes, when a bunch of huge and proximate economic factors haven't even begun to get ruled-out?

> Are you making your bed everyday?

Is your bed still made out of hay/down, or is it made out of something far easier to maintain and keep clear of pests without the same level of fuss?

> Changing sheets, ironing, folding clothes.

Do you still invest the same X hours of wages into buying a shirt that someone would have spent back in 1723? (Hint: No.) Why would you ever expect the same degree of maintenance "perfection" when it doesn't represent the same kind of up-front investment?

Do you try to impress people by wearing powdered wigs like a proper and hygienic individual, or do you sometimes Just Not Shower Today because we have nowhere near the same kinds of problems with head-lice and body-odor?

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