'Pig MRSA' Came From Humans, Evolved Via Farm Drugs | Hacker News Reader

'Pig MRSA' Came From Humans, Evolved Via Farm Drugs

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66 pointsmaxwell18 comments

80% of the antibiotics sold in the US are ingested by animals: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/12/news-update-farm-a... It lowers the cost of food production but also lowers the effectiveness of those antibiotics in humans and creates drug resistant bugs.

It's time for a global ban on antibiotic use in agriculture. These multidrug-resistant species we're breeding are the single most likely cause of the eventual extinction of the human species, far ahead of nuclear war.

I think a ban is a bit excessive. A ban on anti-biotics in humans would be devastating. However, more restricted and controlled use under specific circumstances, much like how it's controlled for people, may be an appropriate step. However, I admit that I don't know enough about the situation to be able to provide well informed advice on the topic.

The parent comment seemed to be referring to a ban on antibiotics only in agriculture, not the human population. Which may be why you were downvoted.

I was only using that as a comparison of how controlled use of antibiotics might be a better approach as it's worked well for us and maybe it would work well in an agricultural situation as well.

I see now that I didn't word my response very well.

I'd like to see some data on what an agricultural antibiotic ban would do to the price of meat, eggs, dairy and any other animal-derived food product.

It's easy to call for an antibiotic ban when thinking only about the scary evolutionary effects, but if we're talking about total human misery caused/avoided* by antibiotic use in farming, it's far from clear (to me at least) that a ban makes any sense at all.

If anyone has data on this I'd be interested to read it.

*There's a fair argument over the extent to which we should also consider animal utility, but I'm leaving that aside.

Why do you think an increase in the price of animal products would contribute to human misery? Animal products aren't necessary in a diet at all, and they're only useful in a fraction of the quantity that most Westerners consume. Equivalent nutrition intake can be achieved much more efficiently by directly consuming plant products. I'm ignoring the issue of taste, because I don't think that can be classified as "misery."

Also, the current cost of meat is far from fair, as large farms are externalizing the cost of perhaps the largest risk of a catastrophic event for humankind.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate a complete ban on antibiotic use for animals. A system that required a prescription from a veterinarian would probably be better. I think either approach would have a similar effect on large-scale farming, though.

Right. If antibiotic use in animal farming is as high as indicated here, you can't just ban it without severely impacting the food supply. I'm afraid this problem probably won't get "solved" until lab-grown meat is feasible and cheap.

Or until our eating habits change sufficiently that we don't require a hunk of meat for every meal. Once or twice a week should be enough.

"vegetarian with meat" is a surprisingly nice diet choice; avoid anything where meat is the focus and instead add some meat to what you're eating.

How are you going to ensure that "lab-grown meat" is not going to lack something important contained within farm grown meat? We already know that the composition of the meat changes depending on what you feed the animals. What about micronutrients we don't know about? Man has not supplanted nature in cleverness.

That would be part of the definition of "feasible". Nobody is guaranteeing it even is (but my bets are on eating a lab-grown steak in my lifetime).

I don't know why I'm being downvoted for a simple question, but my point was that I don't see how this it's ever going to be possible to demonstrate that these things are safe. Our ancestors ate game meat, not farm meat. And now people want to grow it in a lab? I'm not saying we can't make a trade-off here, but people focus on the things they can see and ignore the unknown (in this case, the health effects of eating a new kind of processed food).

It's somewhat surprising how little controlled antibiotics for non-human use are. I can't buy tetracycline for myself without a prescription, but I can buy tetracycline labeled for fish-aquarium use from Amazon, despite it being the same chemical (survivalists and hypochondriacs have long taken advantage of that loophole). And of course farmers use it by the ton.

Most places you can buy tetracycline for people, too, OTC.

In the US, at this time, you can't buy tetracycline for people at all - it hasn't been available for months and won't be available anytime soon. Better be a pig if you need it.

Most places sell it OTC, globally.

"proponents of large-scale confinement agriculture contend does not exist: an indication that farm antibiotic use breeds resistance that moves off the farm and subsequently affects humans"

I'm stunned to hear that industry is still in denial about this. It seemed to me ten years ago that the evidence was pretty overwhelming. I guess it's just more evidence of the truth of Upton Sinclair's observation.

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