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Comment by zero_shift | Hacker News Reader

From my experience, ORMs allow folk who know nothing about databases to continue knowing nothing about databases

And from my experience, forcing people who know nothing about databases to write SQL will not make them learn about databases, all you end up with is worse SQL and more injections.

Although the worse offenders by far are those which decide ORM = bad and bypass it at every opportunity.

That's fair, ORMs can be slow but they rule out a whole category of basic mistakes

And introduce plenty more. over-fetching, unindexed joins across many tables being two of the more common.

C allows people who can't build a CPU from NAND gates to do programming :P

NAND gates allow people who can't build transistors from self-mined ores to build CPUs.

(this was a flippant remark, if I could edit it I would reword it)

So let's ban ORMs because newbies don't know the entire toolchain. Yes, that will definitely solve it.

Why stop there? Let's ban RDBMS. If you can't contemplate a binary file structure and index strategy perfectly tailored to your application's needs ahead of using an RDBMS, why should we deign to let you use an abstraction layer with clever query planning and algorithms?

It's all too easy to morally 'ban' people from technology and gatekeep it behind wishy-washy nonsense like "ORMs are bad for beginners."

Isn't that just a useful abstraction?

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