Comment by brandall10 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by brandall10 | Hacker News Reader

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I was slightly offput by this comment "the financial costs of moving (which are high - I've definitely spent hundreds on new drinking glasses alone!)"

Who spends hundreds on drinking glasses when they're financially strapped? That mindset percolates outward.

I think a good part of this outlook comes from kids who came from upper middle class backgrounds, went to good schools, and expect to repeat the success of their parents and live accordingly without much sacrifice.

Full disclosure: I fit that description. And like you I was laid off in 2001 and looked for other programming jobs to no avail for months... I remember my mindset well, strongly that of the victim. I was paralyzed to do anything other than cold call companies/recruiters, spruce up the resume on monster/dice, and feel sorry for myself over and over again on a daily basis. It only happened that a friend was working at a company I had an offer from in '99 and they were happy to give me a job. "Yes, dodged a bullet, got lucky!" And that's all it was, luck. I certainly didn't make it happer for myself. I've been working at that company for 11 years and for the most part it's been a ho-hum experience; I am actively working to move on to something better by doing freelance work on the side for cheap to build up a portfolio. I wonder how my life would have turned out if that safety net hadn't been there.

This. There is a large segment of the American population that cannot fathom living a life not based on gross consumerism. It is a crippling behavior when you have little income and are just starting out because it prevents you from accumulating the savings required for economic flexibility.

When I was in my 20s and poor, I think the most I ever spent on drinking glasses in total was a few dollars, and I moved many times. I managed to actually save a modest amount of money making terrible wages in an expensive city without a particularly poor lifestyle but I only occasionally spent money on toys that I did not genuinely need. It made it possible for me to bootstrap myself to a very good job and to develop good saving and spending habits.

Amen.

The trait of rich people that I try to emulate (not always successfully) is that they tend to purchase assets that appreciate in value. Toys are paid for with highly disposable money and not the nest egg.

The trait of poor people that I try to avoid is purchasing depreciating assets, usually on credit ensuring that you'll be poor until that lotto ticket hits big (i.e. forever).

Isn't this pretty hard?

Most assets depreciate. Here's a non-exhaustive list: furniture, kitchen supplies, food, electronics, and vehicles.

It seems like it'd be hard if you're poor to avoid having a large chunk of your income go towards things that depreciate immediately you touch them.

It isn't easy, but it pays off. I slept on my floor for 2 years after I got a job as an engineer at IBM.

The overall point is this. If you say that you're poor, but you have a cable connection, TV, cell phone, data plan, multiple cars on finance, large student loans for that lib arts degree, and eat out at restaurants, then you're poor by choice. It's fixable via a change in priorities. I'm not claiming that everyone is in this situation, but many people fall squarely into this bucket.

What can a normal person buy right now that appreciates in value at any reasonable rate? Not savings accounts, not stocks (on average), not houses... Most of us don't have the money or connections to invest anything other than some time in hits-driven businesses like startups.

> not stocks (on average)

???

My (non-retirement) portfolio began with $1000 weeks before the 2008 crash. Despite the horrific timing, those shares are now up 6%.

Overall (with continued intermittent investments and zero attempt to time the market, though a couple times I got a little lucky), my shares in a couple mutual funds and a few individual stocks are up almost 34%.

This doesn't count dividends, which I automatically plow back in to purchasing more shares, and which have basically added ~12% to the overall value of my portfolio.

Any idiot with $1000 could start doing the same thing I did. Sign up with an online broker, and pick an S&P 500 index fund to dump some money into. If you can afford a little more, put some of it into a reputable small cap mutual fund.

>I was slightly offput by this comment "the financial costs of moving (which are high - I've definitely spent hundreds on new drinking glasses alone!)"

Ummm... I bought new drinking glasses when I was moving out, because otherwise I'd have nothing to drink from.

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