Ask HN: A suit too big to fill, a jr. developer in the turmoil? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: A suit too big to fill, a jr. developer in the turmoil?

6 pointsiL2wkD8VhjfJ25 comments

Hello everyone,

I felt the need to describe to you the situation in which I find myself, your potential comments will surely help me as well as people in relatively similar situations.

- I work in a startup less than 2 years old, as a junior web developer. We're growing and profitable.

- I was the first developer to join the team, made up of salespeople and administrators (< 5 people), we are now 3 juniors.

- I started web development late, 2 years ago. Made some progress recently, far from enough, lacking fundamentals knowledge for sure.

The problematic situation is as follows:

- I actually have to manage all the web development department + hardware management for ~10 people.

- I do not have a tenth of the skills required for this position.

- Pay is the legal minimum.

- I don't want to let down my great fellow developers but the situation is getting too heavy for me. The workload is so heavy and my/our skills so limited that it is impossible to meet deadlines and development quality standards.

- I can't stand having to change development specifications anymore because the boss(es) change their minds every 4 mornings about the requirements of our software.

- I accepted the job because I thought we were creating a team of more experienced developers, but to reduce costs my superiors want to recruit juniors devs or government-subsidized contracts, so students.

=> Is it acceptable to admit defeat and give up? I'm thinking about finding a cooperative training course with a web dev agency. I need to work with some badass seniors and learn.

I understand that taking a suit that is too big for you and learning to fill it is part of the game, but the gap seems too big to me.

Holding on will potentially allow me to obtain a comfortable position within 3/5 years. But continuing to work like this risks crashing all current development, risks users's data, and my mental health.

What is your feeling? Your feedback?

There is one thing you should always remember: Never accept responsibility, without the authority to change things.

You are being given the responsibility to manage all of this, without the authority to do so. So here is what I would do:

1. Ask for a title bump. Technology/Project/Services/etc Manager - frame it as other people need to know that you are the person in charge of technology, therefore you need a title to signal that you are the point person for decisions.

2. Insist on being in all high level planning, budget, etc meetings. Frame this request as saying that they are setting less-than-100%-completely-informed deadlines, therefore you need to be in planning meetings so that you can temper expectations and give technology's input.

3. Ask for a department budget so you can purchase what you need. Contractor expertise/books/courses/etc.

4. In the event that you don't get any of these - and I fully expect you won't - start interviewing. You sound like a smart individual who's outgrowing their position and need new challenges, and if they won't give them to you, you need to find another position that will.

It seems like the obvious answer here is they're leaving a senior slot open for when they can afford a senior, but it's not going to happen. So yes, this sounds like the next best alternative. Grow into a CTO.

I've been offered these senior roles myself in some startups, and I always ask them why they don't just promote the girl who's been holding everything together. Often the junior with domain knowledge can do a little better than a senior who comes in having to learn everything.

Another common pattern in these startups are what I name after the MMO tank+DPS. Someone out there has to tank the meetings, spend 2 weeks arguing and calculating that, no, we can't complete this in 2 weeks. That leaves enough space for the one writing the code to actually do the work.

We work in a rather regulated field so yes a junior with a good understanding of business logic has an advantage.

> Another common pattern in these startups are what I name after the MMO tank+DPS

Well seen, it's a real position for the sustainability of the developers.

> There is one thing to always remember: Never accept responsibility without having the power to change things.

This resonates a lot with me, I think it represents the situation well.

I remember a meeting during which the marketing manager / graphic designer (a student is cheaper) was asked to re-design part of a consumer app. So I asked that she be able to make final decisions about any changes so that I wouldn't lose too much in going back and forth for approval.

Management said no, they had the final say.

A nice illustration of what you just said.

Thank you very much, I keep your recommendations preciously.

You already sounds pretty negative, they way you have framed the post. My initial gut feeling tells me that you should leave this job and find a place that nurtures what you want to achieve.

But, I see an opportunity for you to learn and forge yourself into a very robust engineer. Treat this place as place where you will upskill your self, take risks learn modern technologies. If it solves orgs problem great but if not, you have upskilled yourself. Pick up new product, introduce tools that enable business owners the build or customize their implementation. You can work very hard and take ownership. The fact that you are talking to stakeholders upfront you can push back, learn to logically argue with business owners and stuff.

It depends up whether you feel burned out or not. But I see opportunity. And also, it should ask the stakeholders to get software manager or product owners to structure the roadmap.

I have to admit my negativity, sorry. I feel tired.

It's a good opportunity, of course, but it will absolutely be necessary to succeed in changing the balance of power.

I appreciate the logic of personal progression regardless of the outcome for the company. Have you experienced this?

If you feel tired, it is not worth it anyways. Regardless of the outcome.

Yes I have experienced it. I can tell you there is better org out there where you can thrive and grow into a very good engineer as well as understand how startup and business works.

So you took the risk of changing gear and following your inner motivations. Was it worth it in the end?

You are in what I call in the Chasm. Afraid to take chance, risking something that you already have. I have seen people be in that chasm for year and suffer.

I did take the leap of faith. Initially, there is a feeling that may be it was not a great decision but even from a distance and when you look back it looks like a better decision. When you leave this job, you will feel a big pit or stone removed from your chest.

It was definitely worth it. Now you know what you don't like in an org and what you should not do when join the next org.

Please feel free to reach out to me directly if you wish to.

Where does this expression come from?

I have a good example of "leap of faith". A close developer friend of mine decided to leave the development agency where he was working for fairly similar reasons. He then managed to find a job at a much bigger development company. He's still amazed that I have to wear 5 different hats when he's only wearing one, with no deadlines, just PRs and 3 times the salary.

I'll do it, maybe giving a bit more context and detail is important. But I don't want to take up too much of your time.

> - Pay is the legal minimum.

Literally minimum wage?

Low pay in start ups is offset with equity. Equity can end up worthless, but at least gives some justification to low pay.

If you are making min wage and have 0 equity.... you are being taken advantage of. Even if you're junior, you have long since proven yourself 2 years in. It's time to start looking.

Relatives and friends have also told me this.

My latent impostor syndrome tells me that I should already be happy to have a job, but that's clearly not enough. The national average salary in my country for a junior JS dev is double that.

You are compensated for a few things in a job: The expertise you bring, the responsibility you take, and the stress the job poses on you. It seems to me that you need a significant salary bump. Not double but x10. It's not your responsibility to satisfy the requirements, neither you should take stress for it. Of course, you don't have the expertise to do it, but that's not your fault.

Given that the odds of getting a x10 salary are nil, I suggest you put all your efforts on job hunting. Answer all emails/calls with Okay now. Don't worry about the consequences of getting fired because that's the outcome you are hoping for.

I'm afraid I've misunderstood what you've written. Are you being sarcastic?

Of course, it's my fault if I don't manage to progress as quickly as the job requires. On the other hand, the decisions taken by management not to hire experienced developers for cost reasons and to favour state-subsidised student contracts is not.

It's my fault if I don't manage to organise the development properly and therefore don't meet the deadlines. It's not my fault if managers change their expectations/features literally every week because they have "the big vision".

I would continue working but start applying elsewhere.

Unless you can afford to go without income.

I can't, so that's the strategy. I have to activate stealth mode, though.

Actively looking for work while currently employed is totally normal.

Just remember it's a numbers game. If there's a 1% chance of getting a job, that means you should expect to apply to hundreds of places before starting to give up.

Best of luck to you!

Admitting defeat is the wrong way to frame the situation. You have learned a lot and gained a lot of experience. There has never been a better time to market your skills, to companies all over the world, and see what is out there.

Your company compensates you for work that you've already done. You are not paid in advance. You owe them nothing. Be respectful, professional and polite... but, always do what you feel is the best thing for you.

Thank you for your support.

Perhaps I don't owe anything to the bosses, having done the job as best I could despite my limited skills.

However, I don't want to "let down" my fellow developers if I decide to leave.

If the startup is growing and profitable, given your early arrival and importance, then you should have some significant degree of ownership. Since they have not provided that, and yet rely on your services, it would be very fair for you to abruptly cut them off, hopefully killing the business.

Here's one of the pitfalls.

You are repeatedly told that you are "in charge" of projects etc., but the decisions taken by superiors are always imposed, because they have "the vision". Even if this means adding 2/3 heavy features to be developed and changing the design system a few weeks before major releases.

Technically, they could operate with Excel spreadsheets rather than software, it would just take more time.

Your number one priority is to avoid an early burnout. Your tasks may seem the most important thing in the world right now, but unless your start-up is curing cancer, it is probably not that important/urgent/crucial as they want you to believe.

What do you mean by early-burnout?

Does it includes overtime, phone calls outside of supposed working hours, insomnia, impostor syndrome, working sometimes during evenings?

Have you experienced anything similar?

We're not curing cancer (...sadly) for sure.

I'll take your job. I know more than you, good fundamentals, but can't get hired. I think this would be a great opportunity for me and an easy out for you. I currently sanitize shit for minimum wage. We could swap places, if that works for you and your employer, let me know.

Or you could suck it up, enjoy your comfy office job and salary, and try to realize how good you have it.

I'm not denying that this kind of job is enjoyable, compared to the factory jobs I had as a student.

I know how lucky I am compared to the workers I know and the working class in general.

However, that doesn't negate the fact that the organisation of the company is problematic, not just for me but for the other employees.

What positions have you applied for? Do you have any idea why it didn't work out?

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