Moderna CEO made $400M last year–2,435x the median salary of employees
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
Oh right, because everyone predicting this would happen in 2020 and 2021 was hastily banned from social media and given the greenlight by legacy media to be ostracized and marginalized by the body politic using the most utterly vacuous rhetoric imaginable.
All the tobacco executives now working in the pharma industry must feel accomplished.
Tax assets.
I suspect very few people report income in excess of $100M and an 80% bracket would do very little for society other than a vindictive gesture to placate the masses.
Not saying we should or shouldn’t…but it’s not gonna fix all our problems like people think.
The napkin math says: 3900 employees. 400M is 2435x median income in the company, so that's $164k. So if we gave the CEO the same income as the median, and split the 400M across everybody else, they'd all have received a $102k bonus, a 62%-of-median-income bonus.
You tell me if a 62% bonus for the year would make any difference in your life or not.
It’s ridiculous that so many users of this startup accelerator forum want to ban private ownership. I guess I’ll bite…
Why would anyone start/own a company if the government is just gonna liquidate your legal ownership? It would be more lucrative to find the easiest job and do the bare minimum than be CEO under your half baked authoritarian system.
But why is this even a response in the first place to OP? Stick to the topic or else you come off like a religious zealot.
I don't know. Ask the people who started companies when the top marginal rate was approx 90%. Seemed to work out ok for them.
I have not proposed banning private ownership. The issue is how much of the revenue from a corporation can end up as private income. You may see those as connected, or even the same issue. This is a problem, in and of itself.
And your suggestion that anything remotely similar happened to the Reagan era corporations is plainly false.
> And your suggestion that anything remotely similar happened to the Reagan era corporations is plainly false.
This is getting tiresome. Highest marginal tax rate in the pre-reagan era was around 90%. People started companies. People got rich. Not Elon rich, or Bezos rich, but rich. The 90% tax rate didn't prevent them from being rich, it limited how rich they became relative to their income/compensation.
What's so special about the Moderna employees? They already make much more than the median American income. You're redistributing wealth from the ultra rich to the rich. Even if the USGOV took 100% of that $400M, that'd be a whopping dollar per American.
History is littered with failed "utopian" communist/socialist states. The ultra rich will always be able to avoid taxes legally or illegally. They're not gonna report income that gets taxed at 90%. The math doesn't work out. If we magically take 400M additional taxes from 1000 individuals annually that wouldn't even cover our federal debt obligations.
EDIT:
It's telling that you need to resort to quips about goal posts. I suggest you take a moment to read about history and macroeconomics...your brain must be tired from all these mental gymnastics.
I didn't sidestep it at all.
If the top marginal rate is 80%, a company might think differently about how to distribute its revenue, and one option would be a more egalitarian distribution.
But even if the company doesn't, the tax rate itself creates redistribution options to the entire public. So the same sort of scenario applies, except that the beneficiaries might just be 2000 people in some sort of particularly acute situation, unrelated to moderna. You tell me if you think that would make a difference.
Also, tone policing is generally discouraged on HN.
Who do you think maintains supply chains? Who is gonna sell food, energy, and build infrastructure? Entrepreneurship and capitalism for all its ugly tendencies has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.
Where does this ideology come from that says people will produce goods/services for free? Nobody is going to build homes or drill for oil without a financial inventive.
Share with me your fairytale about how we’ll all have apples/cars/whatever without free enterprise.
People like you would rather see the world burn than see the presence of the elite, who will always exist.
the best faith interpretation of this seems crazy to me.
You could simply retain ownership of an important biomedical company or you could share it with employees.
Selling shares for money that you then give away is dumb.
Surely the CEO has a tax advisor to advise... so this leads me to believe that very little of it will "go to the charities"
Companies often impose limits on how many shares execs and employees in general can hold at any give. time, and most regulatory/legal frameworks put caps too.
In the UK for example when employees own more than 5% share in a company they are no longer treated as regular employees.
But, this...
"In a congressional hearing in March, Sanders highlighted that Moderna created its vaccine in partnership with the National Institutes of Health and received $1.7 billion in federal grant money for clinical development."
sort of changes things.
The solution? I am not sure.
How profitable do we want to make pandemic preparedness? I think we should make it wildly profitable.
If the money came with strings, maybe the US government would have a little more money and Moderna stock holders a little less, or maybe we wouldn't have a Moderna. And the upside of the former is so smaller compared to the downside of the latter I think in this case we made the right choice.
Now, I guess those people are anticipating maybe future profits to be made from NIH funds... but that's sort of the point of government grants to private enterprise. In return for putting their capital up to fund labs and equipment and research, investors expect to be compensated... and some of that compensation comes in the form of government contracts to produce lifesaving vaccines.
The first would be for the government to behave like a normal investor: Give money for stock or give a loan instead of writing blank cheques.
The blank cheque at least could have disallowed any sort of patents. This is quite ridiculous: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/23/science/moderna-covid-vac...
Wouldn't that distort the competitive landscape for the other participants, though?
If I were running a business where one of the main customers was the government, shouldn't I be lobbying for the government to take a stake in me, and me only?
I will say it’s strange the government doesn’t have substantial stake in this company given the subsidies. Same with Tesla and many others too.
[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-29/covid-19-...
In one version of this scenario, every person ends up with $1000.
In another version, most people end up with $500, and one person ends up with $500,000.
This creates a scenario where the preferences of that one individual come to dominate the structure of the economy (because the preferences of the other 999 people will, in aggregate, be scatted and diverse).
So this sort of distribution of income system creates an outsize influence in the ongoing nature of the economy, for no reason than that one person was somehow able to end up with a revenue flow 1000x larger than anyone else.
Now, it could possibly that this person is very, very good at doing whatever they do to achieve such revenue. But is that any reason whatsoever to grant them such outsize influence over the nature of the economy?
People love to hate on the rich but forget that simply having money isn’t the actual problem. The problem are institutions that are easily influenced by money.
Or to put it simply, how is your wealth (and if youre on here you are wealthy by global standards) negatively affecting the global poor?
The other 999 people will have a diverse set of preferences for services and goods within the economy. They will share some, and not others. But each of them has only $500 to spend on those services and goods, and so anything not widely shared among them doesn't offer much of an incentive in terms of potential income to anyone who might offer goods and services. If something doesn't appeal to a sizable majority of the 999, there's likely to be too little chance at sufficient revenue to pursue it.
By contrast, the high value individual has $500,000 available to spend on their own singular preferences for goods and services, providing a strong incentive for providers of those things to cater to this individual. The changes of being to have a reliable, significant revenue flow from doing what they want are quite good.
Consequently, the economy ends up being structured (to some degree) around the preferences of the wealthy individual, rather than the broader public.
Of course, this is not a "hard divide" ... obviously there will be some things that all 999 others (and even the 1 rich individual) want, and some part of the economy will respond to that. However, even for such basic things as, say, bread, preferences can be wildly divergent, meaning that a single provider is not likely to tap into the entire potential market for that generic. And obviously there are also risks in this thought experiment scenario, because there is only a single high wealth individual - fail to accurately target their preferences, and you're potentially worse off than catering to everyone else.
Obviously, a more realistic example would (e.g.) involve 1% (say, 3M) individuals of high net worth/income, amidst 330M+ individuals of varying levels of net worth/income. In this scenario, there is more scope for providers of goods and services to cater to relatively unpopular things, because amidst the 330M lower-income folk, there will likely be enough to make it potentially worthwhile.
But this is true only to a point. If enough of the lower income folk don't really have much disposable income at all, their preferences for non-essential items will not translate into actual purchases of goods and services that they may otherwise be desirous of.
And of course, with 1M high income people, their preferences will be more diverse than in the thought experiment. However, the deck is still stacked in favor of businesses that seek to cater to those with more money, because of the unbalanced distribution of wealth & income.
In this more realistic example (i.e. the contemporary USA), a sizable chunk of the economy remains focused on the preferences/needs of the majority. But a much bigger slice of GDP flows around the preferences and needs of the very wealthy than would be the case with a more balanced distribution of income/wealth, and I maintain that this constitutes a harm to the economy and the entire population.
If it was about political power, it would still have to be noted that despite some effort, the fact that wealth doesn't literally buy you extra votes doesn't eliminate wealth giving you more influence over political priorities and decisions.
None of these require political power in the sense of actually voting nor in the sense of lobbying/bribing/donating to politicians.
Moreover, the people who will feel the effect of my spending/investment may be disjoint from the people who would feel the effect of me exerting political power via money.
> Moderna created its vaccine in partnership with the National Institutes of Health and received $1.7 billion in federal grant money for clinical development.
Is the vaccine subject to any patents or other restrictions that would prevent a generic version? If so, why is this allowed when its development was largely paid for by the public?It was extremely fortunate, as it turns out, that somebody had previously invested the megadollars to build that platform in hopes that it would turn out to be useful. It was a modestly risky bet, lots of biotech VC cash ends up being set on fire.
Nobody will invest in the next Moderna if they believe the Feds will effectively nationalize their investment if it turns out to be valuable/"essential" enough.
"My husband and I are both managers in tech and each make $600k a year"
First, good for them, I guess, but also people constantly conflate stock-based compensation (which is compensation but very, very rarely a fixed rate of income) or windfall years or capital gains and hand wave them all together as "salary."
In the scenario I encountered, the couple lucked out in they both work at the same place and the company stock has appreciated significantly, but what wasn't said is that they cannot sustain that income beyond one year.
It's quite possible to make over $1M in a year, at least on paper -- I've done it a few times in my career. Making that much year over year without any windfalls is certainly more challenging. I'd never state "yeah I make over $1M/year" in a windfall year.
So if these vaccines magically reversed heart damage caused from contracting the virus, it's news to me and you should be able to cite a peer reviewed study not funded by the manufacturers or their investors.
Aside from the half million excess deaths in the US in 2020?
“Everyone” didn't contract the cirus in the time between the first case and the first vaccine deployment.
https://assets.modernatx.com/m/12c20bf7f34a6490/original/Mod...
1. https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/0001... (see page 59).
Either you're a capitalist or you're not. If the company in question was Disney or Apple, this wouldn't be appearing on HN in any capacity.
Any government funding does muddy the waters slightly, but anything they did contribute I assume was for the public good.
It absolutely was not! It was billions of public funding for a public health emergency.