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> people have completely given up on society and said fuck it, we'll make our own.

Fwiw, this type of thinking played a pretty strong role in how America began (and in other social/moral movements). It's not always a bad thing.

> This is sad. The real solution is not to homeschool. It is to force ALL kids, regardless of age, location, and income to be forced into the same school system. Want to improve things? gotta make it better for everyone.

I get your point, but just to continue my analogy, King George might have said something similar in the late 1700s. A good general counter-narrative to this line of thinking is James Scott's "Seeing like a state" which documents the degree to which governments regiment society in ways that reduce social welfare.

I don't see it as social welfare, I see it as more "ensure everyone, ESPECIALLY the elite, are bought into the system". Otherwise we get conversations like we do today where "do we defund the education system" is a real convo. If those same people would have no choice but to send their kids to a defunded education system... we'll see change.

To add a bit more incentive, I'd say the children of any senator / congressman / local state legislature / governor / mayor / etc must attend school of that state. This will again ensure that people who make decisions and influence decisions are actually committed to the solution.

Again, not thinking about "how to rely on the government" but more along the lines of, "how do we make sure those in power / influence are as bought into the system and the solution of the system as the rest of us"

If everyone was forced to attend the same types of shitty public schools then it would just increase the market for private tutoring and supplemental education. The trend tends to be lowering the education standards to match the lower students instead of making standards more rigorous. This is why my kids attend charter schools.

I agree. This is why in Finland they made it law that nobody can not go to public education (a slight oversimplification). For exactly this reason. And they continue to diligently deny any attempts to game the system via strict court rulings. It even got to a point where kids wanted to swap schools due to them having less travel time, but the court said that this has the potential to lead to the wealthy using these exact arguments to send their kids to a local school which would be superior to other schools and thus defeat the entire point of the system. It is a lot of diligence but it is done for _exactly_ the reason you stated.

What I found interesting, is people look at the finnish education system and say "oh, if we did away with tests" or whatever... but the answer is, it has nothing to do with tests. It has everything to do with the thousands of small details that only get taken care of because the entire society is committed to making it work because _everyone_ is in it, so everyone has to fight for it, including the politicians who set policy and the elites.

> This is sad. The real solution is not to homeschool. It is to force ALL kids, regardless of age, location, and income to be forced into the same school system.

People are free to homeschool. And some decide to do it. But I understand that freedom is a word statists do not like: so even the freedom to homeschool should be taken away.

> This is sad.

What is really sad to me is the followers in the religion of the almighty state and their endless pursuit in taking away every little freedom that we have left.

>This is sad. The real solution is not to homeschool. It is to force ALL kids, regardless of age, location, and income to be forced into the same school system. Want to improve things? gotta make it better for everyone.

Not everyone's sole goal in life is to be an activist.

Hell, I left my home country because I didn't want to waste my life pursuing activism when I could just leave for a more ideologically agreeable place. I'd sooner just leave for yet another place than be told that I'm not allowed to avoid some problem without being an activist.

> The real solution is not to homeschool. It is to force ALL kids, regardless of age, location, and income to be forced into the same school system. Want to improve things? gotta make it better for everyone.

But what if there is a fundamental diversity in educational goals, that different sets of parents want to aim in different directions as “better”? How would you accommodate that?

Why should anyone else’s kids be any of my concern? The metropolitan areas (who have no answers for their own kids and therefore have not increased any socioeconomic situations) are now pushing into my district students who simply don’t care about education and have immediately pushed all perceived “weird” (not lower class urban culture) kids down the hierarchy via bullying. My district won’t even acknowledge this is explicitly a planned phenomena (the districts all come to an agreement) and so certainly won’t do anything to remedy the situation. They run their “everyone is the same and happy and everything is awesome” programs and people get pats on the back but come Monday the teacher is too busy trying to get these kids to not be disruptive to even get to the introductory curriculum much less an excellent lecture.

If every single actor in the bureaucracy is actively working against my interests and the interests of my immediate neighbors (who largely share my opinions) then why should I participate? They’re going to tax me anyway, how is that not enough for you? It’s my kid and I’ll do as I damn well please since I have the motivation to ensure their success and the school definitely doesn’t. People that want sweeping “force everyone to do this, see here’s a news article about Finland” are psychologically malformed in my opinion.

Problem: nobody wants what I'm selling.

Solution: do some market research and improve my stuff? Nah, just make all the alternatives illegal.

.

Also, um, "force people to be activists and help fix things" probably requires actually listening to those people. As opposed to doing things like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_School_Boards_Assoc...

Nono, I do not advocate for a national association for schooling, similar to what we have today. I only advocate to force all people regardless of income, and living area, to have no choice in what school their child is sent to. That could mean distance, that could mean a lot of things. But basically we need to prevent rich kids from going to rich kids schools, and poor kids from going to poor kids schools. EVERYTHING ELSE will correct itself quickly, because when the rich want shit done, it gets done.

Nope. You’ll just have more private tutoring and other supplemental education.

The point is not to allow that.

> The real solution is ... to force ALL kids...

As a general rule, I've found that forcing anything is rarely a good solution. Sometimes it is. But not usually.

Hmm. But why? Why do we need to have one system for everyone to make em into one acceptable mold. Why can't people pick on their own? Why is the idea that 'system is fucked so I might as well do what is best for my family' not an acceptable one?

Because that's how we got the shit we have today. Look at our healthcare system. The wealthier you are, the more you can go "fuck it, I'll buy a wing in a hospital and never have to worry" meanwhile middle america has giant chunks of population who suffer with chronic pain for decades.

Obamacare was the first time that half of america was able to even go to a doctor to figure out wtf is wrong with them.

The point is that what you're saying IS ideal if you can afford it, but the second you cannot, you're stuck in the worst situation available.

The goal is NOT to create 1 education system, the goal is to force everyone to use the same system, and then variance occurs not because of rich vs poor, but because of intentional choice.

I kinda agree with the idea in abstract ( make things miserable for everyone and things will improve ), but it never really works like that in practice. Humans always find a way to fuck with ecisting system. It is a nice idea and maybe a way to scare some people into thinking a chunk of population had had enough. Me? I am not gonna sacrifice my kid to make a point.

I don't want to enter the argument with healthcare analogy.

I mean the same can be said of anything. This is why the fight for for liberty never ends, because every day is a day some jackass can get into power and start claiming elections are rigged.

>"This is why the fight for for liberty never ends”

I find it odd that you’re invoking Liberty when your proposals involve forcing everyone into the same system.

liberty does not mean "100% freedom of decisions in all matters". We already accept that you cannot drive without the same basic rules of the road. We already restrict that I cannot buy a tank and drive it up park avenue fully loaded because I am wealthy enough to do it. Freedom is not an absence of restrictions, freedom is the society deciding what restrictions we want and having healthy debates on the efficacy of those restrictions, vs what dictatorial governments decide with no chance of debate, scrutiny, or follow-through.

This one we would collectively have to accept as a necessary limitation because it would improve many things, and specify exactly how far that limitation should extend. That's the point.

But you are complaining about what we have today. Who wants more of that? Forcing people into worse education systems will just make people find new ways to give their kids competitive advantages.

> Obamacare was the first time that half of america was able to even go to a doctor to figure out wtf is wrong with them

This is extremely hyperbolic and makes it seem like you get the majority of your “information” by skimming headlines.

Obamacare also forced my PCP and many similar doctors to fold their decades old practices and instead go work for large chain practices. Do you prefer only a small number of corporate owned medical practices to exist with no opportunity for competition from smaller groups.

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Noted, thanks.