Hacker News Reader

Comment by redhale | Hacker News Reader

No offense to the article author, but this is written like someone who has either never used a good IDE, or never learned how to really effectively leverage a good IDE (mastering all features, memorizing keyboard shortcuts, adjusting configuration to match your style, etc).

Yes, obviously the most time consuming part of developing software is thinking. But with an IDE, I can sometimes do some of that thinking out loud in code and rapidly prototype as I go with refactoring helpers, etc. This is not always the best approach, but it's a technique that has its place and is simply impractical without an IDE.

A strong senior engineer in a text editor can likely beat a junior engineer with the best IDE. But a strong senior engineer with the best IDE (and experience with that IDE, this is important!) will absolutely run circles around an equally strong senior engineer with a text editor.

For reference, my daily driver IDE is Rider.

View on HN

I don’t think this is true largely because an experienced text editor user will generally have access to most of the same capabilities in a different form. Where there are differences, the win sometimes goes to the ide, and sometimes to the text editor, but generally people adapt their tools to themselves, and themselves to the tools, and in the end it shakes out to be about the same level of productivity.

I’m not convinced that people can easily switch though. I’ve met people who never really get the hang of working efficiently in the “Unix is the IDE” style of using text editors, and I can say from personal experience that I’m just never going to be particularly good at IDEs. I suspect that each tool simply appeals to a different personality type- and that’s okay as long as our projects don’t lock us in to something and we let people have the flexibility to use the tool that works for them.

I'm glad you have a toolset that works for you. To each their own!

But I swear as an IDE user, when non-IDE users try to describe to me how their toolset is just as good as an IDE ("most of the same capabilities in a different form"), it is like I'm a modern human coming into contact with member of a tribe that has been isolated from civilization, and they're trying to convince me how it's just fine to live in a mud hut without AC or running water, and that they've got all the basic stuff they need. Instead of going to a grocery store or farmer's market, they forage and hunt for food (and they're very proficient at it!). Instead of using bikes/cars/trains/planes to travel, they walk everywhere (but it's great exercise!).

And of course there is nothing inherently wrong with living any way you choose. In fact there are many merits to living more "primitively". But it'll be over 100 degrees today in Texas and I'm really glad I've got AC.

I'm genuinely not trying to be condescending here, so I apologize if that is how this came across. My main point is: I really think you should give IDEs a shot. The good ones are very good!

It did come across as quite condescending. The fact is that I’ve tried IDEs, many times. They aren’t a good fit for me.

If we’re doing unkind takes though, I’d say a better analogy isn’t that the non-ide users are ignorant so much as it is that the ide users are, through a lack of ability or motivation, unable to create their own tools to improve their craft, and so take whatever bland uninspiring monument to mediocrity that someone tries to sell them. Like a person who condescendingly eats ramen dry from the package and informs the person cooking a good meal that surely they must be ignorant to not realize you can buy perfectly edible food at the gas station on the corner.

Now, personally, I prefer to think better of people than that- and I assume that people are just choosing to use what works for them, and to not be a jerk about it.

Ha, I actually love that analogy! I will neither confirm nor deny whether I've eaten ramen dry from the package before...

I really didn't mean any offense, so I apologize. I was just trying to find an analogy for a feeling that I've otherwise found difficult to articulate, but I probably did not adequately convey the lighthearted sarcastic tone I intended. My bad.

As I said at the top of my last post, I would never intentionally begrudge or shame anyone for using tools they feel are a better fit for them -- to each their own.

No worries, sorry if my reply was a bit short too. Sounds like we're both happy for what we use, and willing to do a bit of lighthearted teasing of people on the other side with no real ill-will. I think that's a pretty good state for the world to be in.

Or perhaps you're the person standing there explaining to me why I should give up my set of chef knives for the single all-in-one convince of a Swiss army pocket knife :)

Personally, I've tried IDEs occasionally for decades and they've never stuck. I find that a lot of their integrations are ideal for narrow problem spaces, however, I don't often find myself fitting well into the designed problem space.

What do you mean by "beat" and "run circles around"? Is this some sort of speed test? Fewest bugs? Most efficient code? Something else?

One problem with CS being so male-dominated is the endless focus on turning everything into some sort of d*ck-measuring contest at each turn.

I write code for a large part of my living because I'm good at it and I enjoy it. I personally enjoy plain old Sublime over an IDE. I'm here to maximize my contribution to society and enjoy my time on earth. I'm not here to "beat" somebody in some nonsensical code battle.

> What do you mean by "beat" and "run circles around"? Is this some sort of speed test? Fewest bugs? Most efficient code? Something else?

> One problem with CS being so male-dominated is the endless focus on turning everything into some sort of d*ck-measuring contest at each turn.

I hope you read what you wrote. Trying to be more effecient at work is "dick-measuring contest"? And somehow it's a gender problem?

It almost sounds like you're assuming women can't be competitive and enjoy writing better code faster.

Your overly defensive response is more toxically masculine than anything OP said.

I honestly thought this is a satire piece until:

> IDEs Can Create Lock-In Effects

Because all the things come before this point are so absurd.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com