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Comment by thebruce87m | Hacker News Reader

> the Autopilot system caused owner Micah Lee’s Model 3 to suddenly veer off a highway east of Los Angeles at 65 miles per hour, strike a palm tree and burst into flames, all in the span of seconds.

I only use Autopilot on motorways in the UK because I don’t trust it on single carriageways. Even on motorways roadworks can scar the carriageway in such a way that temporary lines are still visible after the works are visible. With the right lighting I definitely see things that would confuse a vision only system. Scary stuff.

> The 2019 crash, which has not been previously reported, killed Lee and seriously injured his two passengers, including a then-8-year old boy who was disemboweled.

This hit home really hard. My son is 7.

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Honest question, do you feel you can safely take back the control of the car when driving on a motorway if the "auto pilot" feature take a random decision you cannot predict?

Yes, once you apply enough force to the steering it disengages.

Annoyingly, to prove you are in control you must apply slight pressure on the steering wheel. I say annoyingly since it sometimes doesn’t register and you have to give more, which is counterintuitive if it is doing the right thing.

On single carriageways this is worse since you are effectively trying to steer the car into oncoming traffic or off the road to prove that you are watching. That’s one more reason I don’t use it on these types of roads.

All-in, it’s not really worth it tbh, and this is just the basic autopilot.

You can give it the same signal by moving the left volume knob up or down one click. It’s much safer than applying force to the wheel, which I agree is actively unsafe (the way Tesla handles it.)

I have tried this but never got it to work. I only recently got the update that limited my charging to 80% so maybe I was behind.

That only applies in the US, for Europe (and probably other markets) you need to apply steering input.

Interesting, thanks! I kept trying it and though I wasn’t doing it right.

Not the GP but empirically you can't unless you get rid of the majority of FSD's benefit. You'd need to already have both hands on the wheel, have a foot over the pedals, and be paying as much attention as if you were driving - likely more - to see things start to go haywire in that first split second. And, pray that your reaction time is better than whatever FSD is going to try to do.

Maybe that's how you're "supposed" to use FSD but realistically nobody does that. Teslas are not super common in my area but I have one friend who has one with Autopilot and uses it on his ~35 minute highway commute to work. He reads his email on his laptop next to him and doesn't look up at the road until his car gets off the highway. That's how 99% of people will use this.

> I have one friend who has one with Autopilot and uses it on his ~35 minute highway commute to work. He reads his email on his laptop next to him and doesn't look up at the road until his car gets off the highway.

Your friend is pretty reckless.

And this is exactly how most people will use FSD.

Your friend, and I cannot emphasize this enough, is going to kill someone.

I don't understand this "[reading] his email" thing. I can't look away from the road for more than a couple of seconds without the car alerting me to pay attention while FSD is enabled. It's currently both watching for attention (eyes) and nagging on the steering wheel. Autopilot at least does the steering wheel nag every 30-60s. Failing to acknowledge these cause the car to pull over and start blaring alarms in the cabin. I'm not sure how "99% of people" can use it the way you're describing, especially for FSD.

I've personally never felt like I couldn't take control in <1s.

I assume your car is newer. I have a 2018 3 and a 2023 X, and the X will nag me almost instantly if it thinks I'm looking at my phone. The 3 however happily chugs along.

> likely more

Yes, more. This is a fundamental problem with these sorts of “computer does safety critical thing but can’t do it perfectly” things; you need someone whose job is to do _nothing_ most of the time, but have full awareness of what the machine is doing and be ready to stop it at a moment’s notice. Humans are, generally, quite _bad_ at doing mostly nothing but remaining super-alert.

It’s not just autopilot of even FSD with issues like this, though. I have a 2021 Kia and Toyota that like to aggressively brake at odd times a few times a year. It just happened again in the past week in the Kia. Going 70+MPH and having the brakes suddenly and unexpectedly applied while going around a corner is jarring regardless of how fast you take back control.

My hypothesis for the Kia is that direct sun on corners at speed might affect the vision and/or collision system[0].

Is an infrequent jolt a reasonable trade off for the benefits? As an experienced driver o think so, but would my kids be able to handle it when the learn to drive?

0 - https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kia2/in/en/content/ev6-manua...

I have similar issues occasionally with my older Honda. Usually the combo of incline, curve, sun and oncoming traffic trigger it.

> With the right lighting I definitely see things that would confuse a vision only system. Scary stuff.

Have you used the system in these situations?

There's been a ton of construction on the freeway (motorway) near me that's left several visible lane lines, and the car has always been dead set on the actual lane somehow. It still drives (acceleration, steering) like a drunk 10 year old going to the gas station for a Slurpee, but the actual lane recognition aspect of it has been impressive to me.

There have been a few times I’ve wrestled the car on the motorway for various reasons. I’m not sure what it would have really done, but it was starting to do things I didn’t like so I took over.

> drives (acceleration, steering) like a drunk 10 year old going to the gas station for a Slurpee

Pretty good description from my experience as an owner for 4 years. It also had so much variability in behavior and regressions. Sometimes it would be incredible and maintain lane even in confusing poorly marked lane lines. Other times it would panic alert at every HOV on/off ramp for a 30 mile drive. Sometimes both of these things in the same drive!

I had to look this up: Motorways in the UK have hard shoulders, and several categories of traffic are not allowed: learners, slow vehicles, pedestrians, and bicycles. They typically do not have traffic lights and the right (innermost) lane is only for passing.

Yes, basically at least one lane either side of you in normal driving unless someone is overtaking, or you are. I like the extra reaction time this gives.

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