Doing laundry on campus without a phone
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naveenarun.wordpress.com
I've been that contractor, which is why I will never be the owner of an appliance that requires an app to function.
The lack of release notes is probably just not the effort, or even confusing for users and can deter them, or make them never read the release notes when they happen. I don't think most users know what semantic versioning is.
Like, if the only thing you did last week was refactor some module, add more unreachable code for a flagged feature, and update third party libraries, do the users need that info every week?
But not releasing all those small changes daily/weekly makes the releases more and more dangerous as they stack up.
I like my releases thoroughly tested.
You updated some third party libraries, and maybe there's some subtle thing that changed in them to cause a break. Maybe that refactor wasn't zero impact the way it was intended to be. As a user, sure I want to know about third party libs being updated. All of that is useful information for us to decide to take the update or not. Back in the good old days it was all information everybody gave as a matter of course. These days, especially on phones, it's opaque and you're forced to take it whether you want to or not.
edit: and the interface changing out from under us unexpectedly is incredibly off-putting. I hate that these days I never know when an application I use every day is going to decide to remove its menus or something similarly asinine inflicted on me because that's the latest trend in UX design.
"Bug fixes and performance improvements"
Phones have very capable browsers.
- useful applications don't need "gamification"
- native applications push users into addiction and ease privacy violations
Useful native mobile applications exist too. But they are mostly not superior to PWAs.
I read OPs comment as an observation about the market and society and the conclusion is categorization by correlation (there are technical arguments too, of course).
Compare the permission flow of native applications to the one of web applications explicitly opened in any browser:
You should notice some differences.
That being said, I strongly consider supporting arguments as invalid when "ideological" is part of the brief summary of your refutiation and the supporting argument is first in the enumeration of your supporting arguments.
It's just a subset of the infinite set of useless but convincing "ad hominem" arguments, unless you can specifically point out why exactly some argument is "ideological", rather than rational logic or an attempt at achieving this ideal.
* The tasks one strictly needs in a smartphone does not require intensive computing, the kind not possible already with JS. Games do. Banking, govt services, online shopping, messaging applications don’t. Name me one such application.
* Applications would consume far less power without compiled binaries or WASM, and without being able to run in the background. This would greatly extend battery life.
* All applications would be properly sandboxed with a permissions model and source-code inspectable.
Embedded software is the absolute worst. Think about the UI of your TV or car radio (unless it's from one of the few manufacturers who have wisely given up on software and licensed theirs from Google or something): My old Toshiba plasma TV's UI looks like literal clip art, with obvious "polish" problems like some of the icons being 32x32 and others being 31x31--that kind of shit. Fixed width text font. UI responds 3 seconds after you press the remote button. The full color palette is: 0xff0000, 0x00ff00, 0x0000ff, 0xffff00, 0xff00ff, 0x00ffff (very creative). The audio feedback that happens when you navigate a menu is 500-1000ms off from the animation. It's a total mess.
These companies look at "Software" as just another line item on the BOM, like a nut or a screw. Source it from the cheapest supplier you can find, and scoop it into the product somewhere down the assembly line. The idea that software is actually a vital part of the creative industrial design of their products is foreign to them.
Maybe I'm cynical but I think this isn't a downside for the washing machine company, this is actually an upside.
>I tried doing my laundry without a smartphone. This proved to be difficult, since our laundry machines can only be operated with a smartphone app. After lots of struggle, I finally managed to do it, leading me to reflect on whether technology is actually making our lives better.
The problem, as I have been endlessly ranting on HN. Is that everyone now think of Tech, and uses the word "Tech" to mean Software.
I only wish I am wealthy enough to start a NO-Tech trend. i.e Zero or minimal Software. No more digital panel in a microwave, no more endless menu washing machine, No more Smart TV or Smart Fridge. The actual Technology should be in Atoms, not in Bits. Making Washing machine cleaning cycle faster and cleaner.
Apart from InkJet Printer, the so called Smart Appliance is the next one on my hate list.
I don't buy products that lock me into their app.
We had like 1/100th the budget of Lyft. It's inexcusable.
An sms interface is super easy. You give it an address, then it reads it back to confirm it's right, gives you a list of price options and sends you updates... You can do the entire rideflow completely over sms assuming the person has already signed up. Even the tips, no problem.
It feels more casual. We definitely got higher utilization after the SMS interface than before. The flip phone interface was actually great for people with old phones or on limited data plans, it too got a lot of use.
This forcing of all the users through the same funnel is total bullshit. Wasn't personal computing supposed to be individuated instead of consolidated? Let's stop 1960s IBMing everything
It's how many profit dollars does it lose.
Most customers are hybrid customers - they will use say, Amazon.com on a desktop and on their phone.
The question is do you want to cater to customers where they're at as that flow changes throughout the day or do you want to force them to come to you?
Obviously it's the first. You want to push your way into their behavior through ubiquity.
You keep it up for the same reason you keep the Denny's open at 3am Christmas morning or you have those 7 Starbucks within a mile radius - there's an important ideological commitment that defines your relationship with the customer as a reliable and accessible partner in their lives. It pays dividends at the macro level even if on the micro level it doesn't seem reasonable.
You're either de facto infrastructure or luxury. Make sure that decision is yours and not the consumers.
As far as what happened to the company, we had some high risk bets in 2020Q1 and bet everything on it and yeah well, pandemic. Shit happens.
If say Dolly Parton started a successful restaurant chain with line dancing waiters and barrels of hay everywhere, that doesn't mean country time jamborees are the things to be copied. There's a greater context that all these things exist in and they work holistically and specifically in a way that's codependent on everything else including uncontrollable external factors.
You can't extract and replicate and expect success. If only it was that easy...
Metrics that I've seen on projects I work on tell me otherwise. There are a small number of people who use desktop or laptop computers, and a smaller number that use multiple devices. The vast vast _vast_ majority of users use a smartphone.
I just want to caution about programmers looking around at their well heeled technical friends and then either assuming the world is like that OR imagining some crude caricature of Joe six pack idiot and assuming the world is like that.
It's often weird, organic and complicated. People are going to find unexpected killer uses for your stuff only if you give them the space for that magic to happen.
I think it would still would be likely close to zero. The ride share concept generally relies on easy booking from a mobile location. So a huge % of your revenue would come from mobile just by the very nature of the service.
You may have some (probably a very small) percentage of users who prefer desktops, but of that desktop preference group most would simply opt to use mobile in lieu of a desktop app if it was not available. That would leave a tiny fraction who would simply not use the service at all. Their potential revenue minus the cost to maintain a desktop platform is what is lost. Quite honestly, I’d wager that you would barely break even in the cost to dev/maintain a desktop version vs the revenue specific to service that “only will book by desktop ever” use case.
I'd think a common use case is traveling/remote workers. Request the ride before you log out of your workstation for the day, and the car is at the building by the time you get to the front door.
Not all customers are equal.
There's definitely ~10% that aren't worth welcoming back, but I'm playing interlocutor here.
There's plenty of companies who tossed all their cash cows into volcanoes for the difficult customer belief which really stemmed from an inability to listen. Here, read up on the fall of WordStar for a premiere: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroPro_International
Old software companies were famous for this: Lotus, VisiCorp, Digital Research - running away from their existing customers who they thought were atrophying to some presumed greener pastures that didn't exist only to end up with nobody because the problem was they had their heads up their asses the whole way.
In this problem space there's 3 levels which are both of increasing accuracy but also increasing work.
1. Imagine your customers 2. Measure your customers 3. Know your customers and almost-customers, like personally.
3 doesn't scale but ignoring it is what can snag even the biggest companies
Have you every had to deal with a 90 year old? It's not simple.
I suppose Uber uses GPS data to guide the driver to the rider when GPS data is available from the rider's smartphone, but I'm glad that Uber doesn't insist on the presence of the GPS data or the smartphone.
Uber has the same at https://m.uber.com - it actually appears to work well for my Western European location despite everyone here being used to the app, however it still shows artifacts of its primary target markets such as the option to pay in cash (not something we do in my location, and the app does not offer that as an option).
Some of them were frustrating like when I tried to order food on swiggy, it would go through with a credit card then get auto refunded and cancelled. The catch? The order will be delivered anyway and appear back in your order history. The refund will not be processed. Due to this strange behaviour, I ended up ordering the same thing 4x until I received my first order and it magically appeared back in the list as fulfilled.
The security guard asked me next day - why did you not receive all your orders that appeared late night? Was there a party?
Later we tried renting some e-scooters, which required the use of the Lyft App. My wife has the Lyft app, which let her pay for one scooter but then wouldn't let her unlock a second one for her non-cellphone-owning husband (I guess if you're a parent who wants to use e-scooters with your child, you're out of luck).
I sense that in the not-too-distant future, those of us who don't own a device running either Apple's or Google's proprietary OS will be pretty much excluded from many of the basic conveniences of everyday life.
A bike does not require a minimum age but an e-scooter does. The app probably knows the age of the user, but has no way to determine the age of the user of additional scooters.
It could cross-reference data from social media accounts, and if all friends of the user fullfil the required minimum age then offer additional scooters.
If a simple yes/no prompt is good enough for porn, I guess it's good enough for a scooter too.
The fact is that there’s nothing potentially dangerous about minor watching porn where there is about minimum age requirements for electric scooters.
Surely your pocket computer isn't your only computer? Like, you do own a computer with a physical keyboard, right?
Pre-COVID, when I made plans to go out with folks, we arranged a time and place to meet, and, like, arrived at that place roughly around that time. It's pretty easy, really.
More and more people, particularly the younger generations, don't have anything besides their smartphone because what's the point? It's additional expense, additional maintenance, additional clutter, additional mess.
They can do everything they need on their phone.
This is the gulf UX design is supposed to cross, I guess. Designing for people who engage with tech in utterly different ways to me.
On the one hand, I rarely use my smartphone at home because I have computers.
On the other hand, I hear stories from parents at work whose kids don't want a computer because "Why would I need one? My phone works fine."
I’m 40 and if I wasn’t a software engineer I wouldn’t own a desktop / laptop computer. As you say, what’s the point? Everything except for software development can be done on a smartphone. Why even bother installing an instant messaging application on the computer when you can just take the phone out of the pocket instead of walking to the room where the computer happens to be? Even when I’m working at the computer I use the phone for music, messaging and news.
That sounds like a little too broad a generalization.
A typical office worker who creates or consumes documents, presentations, accesses corporate apps (half of them still 90s tech with lipstick), submit proposals to clients, review others' work, attending multiple hours long zoom calls with screenshare, etc ... are still using at least 13" laptop screens to do a lot of their day to day work.
Sure a sales executive or a senior manager might get away by just typing one liner commands to minions on their smartphone, hitting approve buttons on expense apps, and just listening into team calls, etc. -- but lower in the hierarchy where the real numbers and usage are ... we still have physical keyboards and mice, and decent sized screens (often multiple monitors) to help us stay productive.
Don't expect to be able to use modern services if you don't want to meet the providers where they operate. It's like refusing to use a card and demanding everyone to use cash, you're going to limit yourself and it's your choice if you think it's worth it.
I think limiting your goods and services to people with devices that have been available for more than two decades and are basically ubiquitous is a reasonable thing to do, considering the benefits that comes with it.
Personally i very rarely talk on the phone, that's never been why I've used mobile phones. I listen to music and use offline maps with GPS far more, but I also use it for payment, camera, text messages, etc.
I have gotten incoming phone calls, mostly from daycare when a kid has been sick.
I went back to candy bar phone more than a decade ago and I barely use it.
I imagine they would hate next time you need to organise a trip and you can't join their group chat for coordination.
Or are you one of these people who calls everyone for basically no reason when a message could suffice?
and IME cats don't self organize into a herd, it's usually one person figuring out a time and place that works for everyone, unless you're one of those insufferable people who sends out a "when are you free" survey of checkboxes ;P
That's increasingly rare. My elderly dad still uses voice calling pretty much exclusively and there's a friend who I'll exchange voice calls with. But I don't think there's a single other person who would call me out of the blue socially absent an emergency--and at least some of these are people I would have regularly called 25 years or so ago.
For that matter, no one at work would just call me on the phone either.
In any case, the goalposts for calling someone out of the blue have moved for a lot of people.
Now you can call them literally 24/7 no matter where they are in the world. There is no recluse.
Interrupting people in the middle of what they're doing whenever, wherever is quite rude and fixing that etiquette is a GOOD thing.
>> 30, elderly
I've had to shut down my accounts in two banks because of surprise app requirements (that weren't in the contract) for basic account functionality. Their apps are only available trough App Store and Google Play, no .apk alternative. And even if you install the apps using Aurora store, the app instantly crashes, I suppose because they implement Google's SafetyNet, or whatever it's called now.
So, unless I want to buy and carry around an extra phone for completely bullshit reasons, I'm limited to only using one bank, the only one in my country that still doesn't require an app for the type of account I want. I've thought of buying a phone just for the apps, but after that, who knows with what other bullshit they may come up with (your device is too old, it doesn't have a phone number associated, etc), so I just give up.
Owning a separate, dedicated piece of hardware for sensitive and critical activities (eg: banking) is a very good idea because it isolates them from all your other mundane, potentially risky activities.
Most people don't do this because of the various inconveniences and expenses involved, but if you can tolerate them it's about as safe as digital activities can get.
You might be fine having apps as closely tied to your real identity as your banking app on a device that's constantly collecting location and other data about you, but privacy is important to some other people.
The banking apps still won't work. They insist on some signal from a SIM card "for my security," and I'm not willing to put a SIM card in a device that won't ever leave my house.
The banks are creating their own requirements for how to access their app.
Just like some users are creating their own requirements.
Both parties seem to be content to be apart of the problem and blame the other.
Why not a computer?
I had multitudes of non-smartphone based security devices in my life, cheap and dedicated small secure things, but those are endangered species now regrettably.
Bank's goal is to prevent access by people other than account owner. When it comes to the VPN usage, there are a few risk factors:
- Concealment of connection. Malicious actor will likely use a measure to hide the request origin.
- Accessing from another country or region, human factor (a common use case of VPNs). Instant thousand miles away teleportation is usually a sign of access attempt with stolen information. While you may be smart, a lot of people aren't and will gladly tell all the info to "bank security agent calling to ask for some information to prevent your account from being suspended".
- Accessing from another country or region, legal factor. Banks in some countries may even legally require a notice in advance before using its cards or services abroad.
- Usage of known publicly available service. Multiple users using the same address makes it harder to tell genuine and malicious users apart, so it's better to not leave it to the chance.
if you remove your bank linked sim card from your phone, the app wont work. if you change your phone, the app has to be re-registered so its like that.
what i am saying is, the threat model of concealment and another region or another person is already dependent upon the owner owing their phone. if its stolen, the first thing to do is to disable access
In .cz, about third of banks require a smartphone app, about third allows SMS authorization at an extra fee and about third has SMS authorization free. However, this all happened in the last few years and every few months some bank announces it's moving towards the app group.
The spicy part is that most banks use the app as the only factor, not as a second factor (as it was with the SMS, where you had password for web banking + SMS authorization as a 2FA). You therefore cannot use a noname-brand Android with vendor-provided crapware, as your security depends on it. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have an employer-provided iPhone.
How do they do it? For example, there is no "authorization" app, only a full-blown mobile banking with full permissions that has the "authorization" as one of the features. Or there is no password for the web banking (wtf!), only a username which is your national identity number and therefore widely known.
The even spicier part is that many banks give you pre-approved loans which are impossible to reject, and therefore if someone hacks your account, not only they steal your balance, but even overdraw.
Well the answer is that in modern life it's literally impossible to access basic infrastructure of many places without a smartphone. It's an absolute necessity unless you want to be a nomad and live in the wilderness.
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-...
The reason I ask is that I am concerned. Anything Europeans do eventually parts of the US will mimic.
I think it's a few things.
- Integration of stuff like GPS that can be done on a dedicated device but are easily done better on a phone through an app.
- Ready access to information on the go. (Much of which wan't really available on the go until the 2000s.) There's a lot you could do once the smartphone came out that you didn't have access to before. But there's a lot in general I can do today that I couldn't in the 1970s/80s.
- And yes, there are apps for things like parking, public transit, rideshare, airline notifications etc. that are more generally relevant if you're traveling and in cities.
What are you referring to? While it may be the most popular messaging app, it's not in any way, shape, or form essential. SMS is also universal, mostly unlimited, and much less weirder than it is in the US.
It hasn't been for like 15+ years since pretty much every subscription has either unlimited*/or more than you can reasonably use minutes/SMS.
>Not sure what's weird about SMS in the US?
Don't you get (or used to) charged for incoming SMS?
Examples?
Nb I have closed a bank account because I refuse[d] to install WhatsApp.
Some cities have been installing concrete filled pipes to close of what used to be access streets into parts of cities forcing them to be "foot traffic only". This started in the EU and became trendy. Now its spreading in the US in big cities. I am not complaining. In some places this actually works out. In some places it hurts business. I guess that is a matter of city planning. Even the really old town I grew up in is doing this now in the part of town that has a bunch of small businesses to encourage more foot traffic.
Another example is roundabouts. Some of the small cities are putting these in new developments. I think it's still somewhat experimental in the US as not every small city is doing this.
I believe the word you're looking for is 'bollard'.
In the 1990s, I remember payphones being conveniently available, but now I need to keep an eye on my battery if I'm going to phone home.
In 2010, I could log into any of my accounts with just WiFi and a password, now I need 2FA and often SMS is the only supported option. Sometimes a phone call. So in order to, say, check my bank account, I now need data and cell signal. That combination can be hard to get in a concrete building or while traveling abroad.
Of course, they are also very wrong. Opportunities to escape poverty are lost when you are only trying to fulfill your immediate needs, then there are the psychological ramifications of being vulnerable and in constant need for aid from others.
There is a reason why we have built our technological societies. It goes well beyond the personal gratification we get from gadgets or fine foods. We do it because it offers security of being and the ability to make our world a better place.
"We" haven't built anything. A group of very powerful people planned this locked-down, dystopian world we currently live in and worked on achieving that plan.
You and I are simply living in the world they envisioned.
As far as smartphones being a necessity goes, I have never owned a smartphone myself, and do not carry any phone at all most of the time. I have just gone on living like I did before smartphones, though I am aware that I am locked out of more and more things. I am beginning to resent things like parking that requires a smartphone. I don't understand the lack of back up options.
Rather than insisting on 'smartphones as a human right', I'd rather see 'opting out' as a human right.
My government has to respect free speech but it doesn't mean I have to speak up. Just because something is a human right doesn't mean I have to execute it.
I very much appreciate those people who live without smartphones. As a society, we need these people. It's not only about people with disabilities and other marginalized groups. It's about everyone.
Last year, the smartphone of a friend of mine was stolen. Luckily, it was well protected. But still it was gone with all the 2F apps. This friend had to learn by example that those apps actually second factors. Also luckily, this person didn't enable 2F for Gmail. Otherwise it would have been much more trouble.
Apple is making it harder and harder to use an Apple ID (required for the App Store) without using iCloud. iCloud is a privacy nightmare.
We shouldn't have to give up our rights to privacy to participate in society.
Betrays fundamental misunderstanding of both.
Society so could step in via elected governments and stop this behaviour through laws. Not that I am holding my breath on this.
Apple can and does read most of the data in iCloud (due to it lacking e2ee by default) including all your iMessages, all your iMessage attachments/photos, all your iCloud photos, all your call logs, all your iCloud files, all your contacts, calendars, etc. iMessage's e2ee is effectively backdoored by all the iMessage sync keys being backed up in the non-e2ee iCloud Backup.
Apple turns over user data (including all of the aforementioned) for 17,000+ user accounts to the US government without a search warrant under the FISA (aka PRISM) system. They turn over even more user data on top of that each year when provided with actual search warrants - the 17k users figure is just the ones without search warrants!
They don't protect most of the data in iCloud from themselves, and Apple is forced to spy for their national government thanks to Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act (FAA702), which allows the US to read anything in iCloud without probable cause or a search warrant - point and click access.
This works out as "You are required to carry your surveillance device at all times"
Thanks to everyone who didn't care forcing the rest of us into being part of your turnkey facist dystopia. Who do you think will be turning that key? How long? 3 years? 5? 10?
but you can't be compelled to provide a service for someone who is carrying cash only, unless something changed recently
Does it mean that? Just because it is legal tender doesn't mean you have to accept it.
* The seller does not state they do not take cash before the transaction happens,
* And the buyer attempts to pay for the transaction after the fact with cash in good faith,
* And the sold goods cannot be returned to their original condition prior to sale,
Then the buyer is okay (FSVO okay) to leave and go about his day because the seller refused to take money that was presented in good faith by the buyer. Because cash, at least in the US, is "legal tender for all debts public and private" and a transaction to which you owe money is a form of debt.
Obligatory not a lawyer and not an accountant disclaimer. I'm way too lazy to go and properly research and cite this.
In real life there's not a lot of cases where someone gives you goods before you pay, and anywhere i've been to that don't accept cash clearly posts "this is a cashless business" (sweetgreen and the like, SF/NYC, YMMV) so good luck making the argument that you're entitled to your free salad
Usually this isn't a problem because "We don't take cash." signs are prominently posted, but we are speaking in the hypothetical after all.
"Sorry I don't have <admin privilieges> so someone else will have to help you with <mundane adminstrative task>"
A surprising number of things also breaks down when you don't have mobile data — and that happens every time you travel internationally and don't have or want a sim card for that country.
And as a Russian, I also have to mention how terrible it is to travel when you don't have an internationally working debit card. There's so much stuff you simply can't use without one because there's no cash option. Those same scooter rentals are one example.
Though not sure you can even sign up with a Russian id
You definitely can't. You used to be able to sign up for Vivid, a similar app, with a Russian passport and by telling them that you live in Germany with no proof required, but I heard they cracked down on this since.
People who travel or shop online often, or have to receive payments from abroad, have all got themselves accounts and cards in foreign banks. I did, too. In some countries (Kazakhstan, Georgia, Indonesia, Turkey) some banks would open an account and issue a card for you even if you're not a resident.
* except several "friendly" countries that still accept Mir cards, like Armenia. Russian Visa and MC are truly useless abroad though.
Sometimes the traditional ways are best.
Laggard only start using an innovation because they're forced by external factors.
It's using technology to go a step backward in usability.
Granted, there are probably better solutions that require neither quarters nor a mobile app, but between those two, the mobile app wins for me.
Adding app operation alongside coin operation would have been an improvement in useability. Replacing coins with apps is just making it suck in a different way.
Once you're below some use threshold, a lot of places would prefer to ditch cash entirely.
It looks like something similar is in effect here: instead of meeting the different customers where the customers alrady are, it's the company's preferred way or the highway.
It works pretty well.
Parking meters are another thing that seems to be going the app route. I use one locally but when I travel it’s usually not the same network so its figure out how to do it.. (website, payment kiosk, another app…)
Apps tend to be a pretty good solution for regular local users. They're less good when you're dealing with different apps/kiosks/etc., with different interfaces, and different ways of storing value in different cities.
Gone that way already in the UK, ironically in lots of places where there is very patchy or no mobile signal at all.
The credit card reader was instant. You could just put in your laundry, swipe your card, and that was it. Instantly started.
They switched to an app by the same service company, and now there were a bunch more steps involved. Put in your laundry, find the app, open it, scroll through their “what’s new in laundry!” news that nobody cares about, click a bunch of buttons until you find the machine number that matches yours, go through the menus to pick washer settings, then pay there, and still need to push the start button on the machine itself.
So much worse, and also more error prone — I would regularly get errors when a machine disconnected from the internet.
Why people think it’s better, I have no idea. The only thing I can think is that credit card fees are cheaper on a $20 transaction compared to 20 $1 transactions
There's an argument that this is quite the reverse: it's innovative behaviour since it demonstrates comparative rarity, leadership (pointing the way), novelty (we should do things differently), etc.
Frankly, I think this thread points to some of the weaknesses in the Diffusion of Innovations theory (which on the whole I quite like). It doesn't neatly model 'luddites', those who are exposed to 'innovations' and understand them, yet reject them for whatever reason.
I certainly don't think I'm a luddite in general but there are a lot of things that I'm just "Meh. Don't need it."
Some shops don't even accept cash anymore. Don't get me started about the worst recent innovation : a Friggin 21" monitor for the "infotainment" in a car.
But I know that if I have to change my current car, it would be almost impossible to have a car without a television on the console. Unless I buy an old car which pollutes too much.
I think that "meh don't need it" is the first step to "I'm gettin too old for this shit"
Considering that Google is already incorporating Web Environment Integrity API into Chrome, soon we won't be on the internet either, and that's a much more pressing concern imho.
Living in one of the highest density areas on Earth, stuff like this blows my mind. Public washing machines are everywhere for those that don't have their own.
I guess the extreme lease costs driven by entirely artificial commercial RE prices put a full stop to it existing in the west.
Obviously only works if your city has multiple scooter providers :)
A lot of banks don't even have web interface and those they still do require you to install and link smartphone app to be able to log in or to pay with card online.
While there might in theory be many second factors with different pros and cons, most bank only allow their own app and nothing else. The few stragglers that still allow text messages make it increasingly user hostile, e.g. rewrite 12 number code and enter special PIN, different from your normal PIN or just click a button in app!
And of course, none of the banking apps will work without Google or Apple account, because if you try to run them on deGoogled Android they just refuse to work.
It will soon be impossible to be part of society without having Google or Apple account. Maybe it is already the case.
Which "classic" banks don't have online banking?
> While there might in theory be many second factors with different pros and cons, most bank only allow their own app and nothing else. The few stragglers that still allow text messages make it increasingly user hostile, e.g. rewrite 12 number code and enter special PIN, different from your normal PIN or just click a button in app!
I'm reasonably sure at least with most major Scandinavian banks you can use plain old OTP tokens.
On the other hand, I have no idea how that is enforced. So it is quite possible that liability stays on books indefinitely. Or worse - not recorded as liability in the first place..
Companies don't want never-expiring liabilities and they also want to make money from people not spending account balances.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/taco-bell-fined-for-violati...
I always need another app or another account, and those are often impossible to use without a local phone number and an internet connection.
There were also periods of time where I had no active phone number, or no smartphone. Sometimes it was just for a few hours because I ran out of battery. Sometimes it was for a few days because I dropped my phone in a lake.
In the later case I could no longer make bank transfers, and if I wasn't well-prepared I could not log into many websites.
1. That money will go through a thing called "escheatment" and end up with the California government on your behalf where it will be held for you.
2. I use the Lyft e-bikes and from recently onwards you can rent one for a friend. It doesn't apply your subscription benefits but I suppose that's life.
Check the TOS, children are, generally, not allowed to use the e-scooter rentals. Preventing this situation seems very deliberate.
For example, Lime-
https://help.li.me/hc/en-us/articles/115004915588-How-old-do...
You must be the legal age to enter into binding contracts. For most countries, this means you need to be 18 years or older to ride Lime scooters or e-bikes. In most countries, you can be 16 years or older for our non-electrical bikes. Before signing up for Lime, make sure to review the User Agreement for your country, which states age requirements
And specifically a non-rooted, locked bootloader, remotely attested version. Running your own code on your own device is suspicious behavior you know! This is already somewhat the case with banking apps, but luckily it's usually possible to hide root for now
And, yes, I get there are legitimate worries about malware and that does kind of solve them, but we've managed with desktop web banking (though not if Google's proposal succeeds). AFAIK most financial scams are executed by social engineering. 2FA (which is now mandated in the EU) is a more effective protection than locking down one endpoint
Barclay's was doing 2FA via an offline code generator (looks like a calculator) where you put in your card and entered a PIN since what feels like at least 10 years ago. I know most users would prefer mobile 2FA, but I wish they'd kept that as an option, whereas AFAIK they're phasing it out
In any case, de facto saying "you must pay dues to either Apple or Google to bank on the go" is quite bad for free competition
Loss of TAM by excluding rooted device: less than 1%
Ratio of problems per rooted device vs problems per non-rooted device: More than 100%
It's not YOUR fault that it's one of the most meaningful heuristics, but that also doesn't stop it from being a meaningful heuristic.
What problems would those be?
The authorized repair technician at Best Buy made me turn off “find my iPhone” before servicing the device. Turns out, somehow, I had two Apple accounts, one with a user name that is tied to my email address, and the other one where my user name is my email address. To my surprise Apple considers these to be distinct accounts. While I remember the password for my user name, and I assumed it was the same for the account that used my email address as the user name, turns out it was not and I could not turn off find my iPhone.
Attempts to use my phone to reset my password lead to the settings app freezing up and giving me a gave a generic “could not connect to network” error message. Switching from cellular to WiFi did not help the situation. The technician was about to say that they would not be able to replace the battery for the day. Fortunately I had brought my laptop with me that day for unrelated reasons and after returning to the store with it I was able to reset my password with the web interface.
Modern technology has introduced a large number of seldom used use cases that are not well handled, but are essential when needed. Had I not had all the devices with me in my digital arsenal, I would not have been able to get my battery replaced. I have to wonder how many people face this issue and end up buying a new device to avoid the hassle.
I love how this would totally feel hyperbolic as a comedy skit
Because it sucked to lug my basket of socks and sweaty t-shirts over to laundry block only to find out there was a big queue and my options were either to lug the basket back to my room and try again a random interval later, or leave my backet lying around in the laundry block, at the mercy of who knows what and come back a random interval later.
Also no one snoops on your audio or camera despite the paranoia around it, there's no need to. You can get all the info you need much more efficiently and accurately other ways.
Maybe they have no other real choice? This discussion is full of such cases.
But I also think it's easy to take all the incredible benefits for-granted and only see the downsides. I remember what it was like 30 years ago and I much prefer now. Do you remember having to go to a physical location (library or town hall) to look things up? Basically no-one bothered and we all blundered around believing whatever some bloke in the pub had told us about.
We all have the world in our pocket now and it's amazing.
(Yes we have the problem of bubbles and misinformation but I still think information abundance wins out over information drought)
https://www.thenewbieguide.se/laundry-in-sweden/
You do not need pocket device for such. Do you really say that in the university - supposedly filled with loads of smart people - no-one was able to come up with a solution for this trivial problem before Steve Jobs introduced the smartphone? Wow!
Do you really say that in the university - supposedly filled with loads of smart people - no-one was able to come up with a solution for this trivial problem before Steve Jobs introduced the smartphone? Wow!
Not sure if you're familiar with UK Universities in the 90s, but no-one was spending much thought making laundry easier for the students. Or making anything easier for the students, for that matter. Least of all the students.
The GPs argument is similar to how full anti-user lockdown of devices is justified for some minor security benefit that could have been achieved without said lockdown.
There is often a web interface to the booking system in addition to a wall-mounted terminal in a hallway. But using that terminal is often more convenient, as you'd often pass it twice every day anyway and you'd only need the key fob to "log in".
(I have worked on developing such a system, but before that I had been a regular user of a competitor's system in my apartment block for years)
Or someone could have written a small client/server app in Access or FileMaker.
I am firmly in the browser-over-app camp. One of the reasons I have close to zero third party apps on my phones.
On the other hand using standardized APIs, a web page can access everything you mentioned except for contacts
The state's monopoly, qua Max Weber, is on the claim to the legitimate use of violence. That is, the right and legitimacy of that right, is restricted to the state, or an entity acting in the effective capacity of a state, whatever it happens to call itself.
Absent this, one of three conditions exist:
1. There is no monopoly. In which case violence is widespread, and there is no state.
2. There is no legitimacy. In which case violence is capricious.
3. Some non-state power or agent assumes the monopoly on legitimate violence. In which case it becomes, by definition The State.
The state's claim is to legitimacy. A capricious exercise would be an abrogation of legitimacy
Weber, Max (1978). Roth, Guenther; Wittich, Claus (eds.). Economy and Society. Berkeley: U. California Press. p. 54.
<https://archive.org/details/economysociety00webe/page/54/mod...>
There's an excellent explanation of the common misunderstanding in this episode of the Talking Politics podcast: <https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership>
The misleading and abbreviated form that's frequently found online seems to have originated with Rothbard in the 1960s, and was further popularised by Nozick in the 1970s. It's now falsely accepted as a truth when in fact it is a gross misrepresentation and obscures the core principles Weber advanced.
Using force outside prescribed circumstances, beyond necessity, or to serve perverted ends (e.g., benefiting a specific politician, bureaucrat, or political supporter or special interest) would be a capricious use.
Again, read Weber's definition, and I strongly recommend listening to David Runciman's explanation. I came across it long after coming to a similar conclusion myself, he addresses virtually all my own understandings and concerns especially clearly.
Rather than
Else quit
It’s not rocket science.
[1] https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/blue...
Walled gardens with their HOA-like behaviors are bad in theory, but sometimes the gangsters in the streets are much worse.
The sandboxing inside of apps is mostly an illusion.
Sandboxing on the web is fairly good because it has to be. The holes deliberately punched in app sandboxing are the problem.
But there is still nothing stopping a company from doing server side analytics and tracking.
[0] https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-direc...
You can save yourself a bunch of R&D, manufacturing and maintenance if you can have the users provide the interface design. That basically what the majority of smartphone apps are for. Sure some of it is convenience for the end user, but for everything that needs to interact with something in the real world it's a cost saving measure.
As to why not webpages.... don't know, seems less serious I suppose. Personally I can't deal with more apps on by phone.
Also the washers and dryers take quarters too but that can be a pain too
But I don't understand why so many restaurants still hang on to it.
It used to be impolite to mess with your phone in a restaurant. Now it's mandatory. Luckily it's not so common anymore now in Spain, only the Asian restaurants still do it. And McDonald's are trying to force their app by removing ever more ordering screens.
It's cheaper than having to deal with paper that gets dirty, torn apart by kids or outright stolen. And "daily special" doesn't need to be manually inserted into menus any more.
I've mentioned it in another thread about ice cream machines already: restaurants and hospitality in general are absurd cheapskates. Whenever a tiny avenue opens that saves them money, they'll do it, legal or not - the only thing that matters is that it looks acceptable to customers.
You've never run a bar or restaurant have you. What do you think the profit margins are?
And no matter where I worked at, if you'd send in the health department, fire safety inspectors, plumbers, electrical inspectors or cybersecurity experts, you'd find a truckload of code violations, not to mention constant issues with getting paid.
Also, they can use their enforcers as doormen. Where I'm from most of them had a criminal record even though they managed to obtain the "Tickmark" security logo (though I don't know whether that was legit or fake). Really, that should never be granted to anyone with any kind of violent crime history.
It's the same with a lot of Chinese restaurants. Lots of laundering there :(
Phone based ordering, which can include pictures of all menu items, is a huge win in comparison.
In some Chinese cities you can walk all day without finding a restaurant/shop that can give you change if you try to pay with cash or that accepts your western credit card.
Without Alipay/WeChat you will be stuck in your hotel unable to do anything.
However unlike the crappy western solution, where each business wants to have their own app, the experience is extremely smooth: Scan a QR code with WeChat, the menu opens in the app, order, pay.
Want a bottle of water in a small shop? Grab it from the cooler, scan the QR code on the cooler, type in 2 CNY and hit send money. Cashier gets a ding that you paid 2 CNY. Confirm with a nod and just leave.
Ride hailing (Didi - which ate Uber's lunch here), airplane&train tickets, and much more is also done right through WeChat/Alipay.
Last time I was there (2019) you had to tie your account to a Chinese bank account. You can only get a Chinese bank account if you have a resident ID. You, for obvious reasons, cannot get a resident ID if you’re not a resident or there on a work visa.
Effectively, I couldn’t even go down to the corner store and grab a snack without an escort because I had no ability to pay for anything.
Both Alipay and WeChat allow that now. I had no issues using my Visa with Alipay, and while WeChat was a bit confusing, it worked in the end.
I recommend setting it up 2-3 days before you're going to need it because especially WeChat may want to do some manual verification.
Covid still exists, but most everybody has natural or induced immunity, and it just isn't as severe (new strains) or as much of an unknown.
It's not going away. If you want to live in a state of emergency in perpetuity, go for it, just don't expect the world to not move on.
That’s why I compared to 2021, not 2020. In 2021 anyone who wanted a vaccine could get one.
> it just isn't as severe (new strains)
AFAIK this is still unproven, do you have a source?
> If you want to live in a state of emergency in perpetuity, go for it
I don’t, and never did. You’ve understood my point exactly backwards. I don’t think QR code menus make sense, and, along with a lot of other pandemic theatre, I don’t think they ever made sense, as evidenced by the fact that once people decided to stop using them, nothing catastrophic happened, despite the fact that the state of the pandemic is not meaningfully different from 2021.
Then they "upgraded" and every machine got a little bluetoothy card reader dongle on it and a QR code, and they "upgraded" the box on the wall so that it stopped accepting cards. So that's fine, I guess, but it was a pain in the ass to start 3 machines at once, because now I needed to run my card 3 separate times, and hope that the readers were all working OK. There was also a mobile app, but the Android Lollipop tablet I had never worked with the app. You needed to activate both WiFi and BT (and it would force those on) but it still didn't work, despite my valiant efforts to contact their Support idiots. They also shut down the good monitoring page, and the only way to monitor machines was to pay for a load and use the app only. That sucked. A major use case for monitoring was to see who was using machines already, before I lugged everything downstairs!
So I got a new Android 10 phone and the app worked okay. I didn't really use the app. Then I noticed that the laundry room was really going downhill. Machines went out of order and weren't fixed. The same with pipes and such. Seeing the hand writing on the wall, I began to outsource to a wash'n'fold service, which has worked great.
Then a few months ago, landlady announced that we were switching laundry services, so that was all swept away and new machines were installed. There is a new app. The little box on the wall now sells reloadable cards, too. And you can pick those up at the leasing office. I sort of used the app just to test it. Obviously, there's no world-readable monitoring page on the web. Thankfully, I think the machines are still accepting quarters. But I'm still going with my outsourced hassle-free laundry.
* Apps that offer any form of social login must also offer Apple ID login * Apple ID login can anonymise your email address per-provider * Every app already gets a distinct device ID, and indeed every app install gets one. Reinstalls regenerate it. * Wifi APs and Bluetooth scans require location privileges, which you can decline. * Apps are required to continue functioning (minus functions that clearly require the permission) if you decline them.
I strongly disagree. I feel like involving my smartphone into any activity that existed in 1990 (like jogging, or riding a bike) tends to make things more complicated, not less. When I go for a jog wanting to listen to podcasts, battery status, headphones, Bluetooth and playlist ordering are additional complexities that, at the very minimum, add additional steps to the process and, at worst, require several minutes of problem-solving before I can get started.
In my experience, involving a smartphone can, but rarely does, make things simpler.
Beeline is an alternative to a paper map, and having seen many people try to navigate with a map I'm pretty sure everyone would agree than a smart phone is massively less complicated.
If you're going on a journey where you wouldn't need a map, just adding in some tech is obviously going to be more complicated than not adding tech.
Finding businesses that match some profile in the area, finding out that business' hours and offerings, then getting directions there from wherever you currently are -- all MASSIVELY easier on a smartphone compared to doing the same in 1990/pre-web. Doing that stuff with yellow pages and a map was a huge pain in the ass that took forever.
Grabbing a playlist to listen to music on a jog is also way easier in the age of music subscriptions and smartphones, compared to going around with a walkman+tape, especially if you factor in getting variety in song choice.
Also, remember communicating with people at arbitrary times? If they're at home, that's fairly safe, though if you're not home you may need to find a payphone. But if they're away from home on errands, lol, good fucking luck getting a message to them.
Finding information about just about anything pre-Web was massively harder. Sources were limited, physical, probably out-of-date, etc. This isn't a smartphone thing as such unless you're talking about real-time discovery while you're not at home. But the smartphone and the real maturation of information sources online were coming together at about the same time.
People forget--or they never knew--what it took to do most kinds of research.
Right, but at least for me this happens all the time. Especially on trips, but even when I'm in my home area to an extent.
- tenants have asked for it because they never seem to have the right amount of change
- banks are declining to accept unrolled coins
- better accounting between owners and property managers
I have a couple old change buckets that probably still have a fair number of quarters buried in them, but I don't get given coins in the US more than a few times a year. If I didn't have old change at home, I'd have to go to a bank.
Personally I would have welcomed anything that freed me from rounding up quarters. Though would prefer tap to pay on the machine over an app.
A laundry near me costs £4, which is $5. Feeding 20 coins into a machine is unappealing, so I can see why apps and so on might be more popular in the USA.
Requiring a smartphone and network connectivity to wash laundry is crazy. It should at best be an option.
But I suppose people have less loose change in their pockets these days.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
- you get the money in advance - you don’t pay commission to CC network for every transaction - casual users will give you much more money than what they need to
> Real Time Data
> Demand Based Pricing
> Real-time performance analytics
> Optimize price per load
> Shareable data & reporting
Despite personally liking my iPhone, I’m looking to help protect the rights of my relatives to live their lives and access public services without smartphones or personal internet access.
I'm noticing it's mainly an US-centric trend to have negative feelings towards good and complex writing.
i've since replaced this (bad imho) habit with other bad habits, fortunately
The Elements of Style
really, i'm not trying to sound rude, theres no other way to put it, you deserve it. its unfortunate that people value "politeness" over reason. this is the hard truth that people in this bubble have not been able to face for 20 years now. the web is an abomination which was never created for anything other than corporate interests and serving magazines. of course it's practically inoperable. same exact story for smartphones, it was created by some scum web company to carry out the old trope of making a software ecosystem where shitty devs that cant make their own software come to and said scummy company gets to rule over. none of this implies any good or even reasonably working software
also laundry is a trivial task, it was only hard before washing machines. also this is one example of where technology actually made our lives better but all kinds of idiots like environmentalists and corpos are trying to ruin it.
In fact, the OP mentions that he has a Razr flip phone, but uses it without a SIM card?!
And whoever thinks that using an app for controlling the washing machine is smart...isn't very smart.
...about being locked out of your appartment when your phone is discharged.
It's so much nicer to be able to card into the laundry room, throw your clothes in, hit start, and leave without having to fumble with Enshittification.
A phone is >1000x that and comes with distraction, surveillance, and is easy ti brake.
For some reason, the laundry app would not run without crashing on his phone.
The Uni could provide a loadable smartcard for the machines - but they had run out. The machines did not work with regular credit/debit cards or NFC phones.
Result: For several weeks, son has to haul laundry on the bus to an off-campus launderette.
After spending a few minutes looking around, I finally asked the guy if there's ANY product that works without an app. Surprisingly, there was - an electric shaving device (razors?). I couldn't stop laughing. Even things as simple of cheap pole/standing fan require apps.
Details?! I do not carry a cell phone and this would be incredibly convenient.
Modern systems don't seem to even try working with my numeric pager.
Kids these days.
Installing a communication program widely used by friends on my bulkier computer that I only check periodically."
Yes, it does make sense.
On the current maniacally forced through and intentionally neglectful way (arbitrarily picking the superiority of a narrow concept over all else) it is not. Not at all.
In the past 10-15 years the usability of technology is degrading. Got only overcomplicated, unnecessarily overwhelming (using it in places unnecessary or harmful), not better in making life easier. Just relocating the difficulty and complexity somewhere else, to some previously unkown domain. Be it gadgets, operating systems, home appliences, vechicles. Things went wrong somewhere by some reason. (rampage of clueless investment money? huge technical organizations serving only themselves? ...)
: (
Isn’t the point of washing clothes to get rid of this kind of stuff?
I’m not sure I want the answer to these questions, maybe ignorance is bliss.
Same, already second-guessing my regular runs to the laundromat
Can fungus grow in your washer? Sure. My washing machine growing up as a kid was gross and my clothes constantly stunk because of my family's inability to take wet laundry out of the washer. Then I went away to college, the machines were maintained, I'm not a moron and can handle getting clothes out of the washer when they're done, and my clothes no longer stunk.
Wash your clothes with detergent (no, you don't even need hot water), dry them promptly, and you will be fine. Use a hot air dryer instead of line drying if you're really worried.
Most apartments aren't getting individual laundry equipment either.
And you can't wash your clothes down at the river anymore.
When I lived on campus (in the Netherlands) every apartment (6-18 people) had at least one washing machine. These weren't provided by student housing, but there was at least one small room in every group that had all the plumbing needed for a washing machine. You'd go out and buy a cheap used one as a group and run it until it died. Same thing applied for everything in the group's shared space: refrigerators, freezer, gas stove, oven, microwave, TV. You'd have a gas hookup in the kitchen but the group itself was expected to provide the stove, just like in any normal apartment.
Especially for students it sounds a hassle to make them install and remove these.
You can rent furnished apartments but this usually for short term use (think a few months).
For students it’s a little different. The appliances belong to the group and are in the shared spaces. When someone moves out they only need to clear out their room. You only need to install/remove anything when it breaks and needs replacing. Not a huge problem.
I use the laundrette around the corner as I don't have a washing machine or dryer (it's really just as easy, and the washers and dryers are crazy fast compared to home ones) and my clothes are just fine at 60C. Bedding and towels I do at 80.
At least credit card isn't a continuous and multi-sensor surveillance device.
Are hiring costs really such a deciding factor? By relying on an app, they have to hire teams to develop and maintain at least two mobile apps, probably another team to develop and maintain the 'Laundry Pod' device, at least two teams to develop and maintain the laundry machine endpoints (hardware and software), teams to develop and maintain the backend services, technical support staff to offer first-level customer support for any IT issue, and (hopefully) a competent infosec team to keep their platform secure. And that's without taking into account the IT infrastructure expenditures.
If they can afford all that, they can afford some low-wage cash-picker-uppers... but why would they even need them? They could simply provide the organisation that is renting out the laundry equipment with the keys to get the cash themselves. Washlava can invoice the renters for whatever flat or per-usage fee, with no need to even touch the cash.
I don’t believe people on HN don’t understand why you shouldn’t do things that don’t scale.
If scaling is the issue, invoicing the institutions hosting the laundry equipment a flat or a per-usage fee (whatever best suits the business model), and having them deal with the cash still scales much better than the whole infrastructure and headcount required to unnecessarily shoehorn an app into paying for using a washing machine.
The biggest problems are loss of autonomy, privacy, and redundancy. Whole life dependent on G and A corps? Accounts that can be banned on a whim with no recourse? No thank you. ((extends middle finger))
This all applies to credit card companies. Try running a porn site and accepting payments with credit cards
A secondary in any case, as issues have well-developed remediation strategies. Few regular folks are banned from the financial system without recourse.
I get it. You wanted to be edgy and shoot from the hip, but this time pulled the trigger too fast.
Here is where you are wrong
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-keeping-closer-tab-repu...
Try running a perfectly legal porn website or anything controversial and try getting a merchant account.
I had a friend who ran party buses that catered to the LGBT community and had a hard time getting a merchant account while others in her same industry didn’t have a problem.
Try going to a big name concert without one—can’t be done thanks to Ticketmaster.
A quick Google search shows that even 94% of the homeless have a cell phone.
Needed to use an old smartphone in a drawer recently, due to current one failing.
Unfortunately they tend to be too old to install current apps. Good for calls, text and web, but not for random laundry app of the week. Same with friends' old drawer phones.
If you're poor the phones you buy are often second hand too, which exacerbates the problem of the old one in the drawer being out of date for current apps by the time you need to get it out again as a backup.