ZSA Voyager: Low profile split keyboard
zsa.io
zsa.io
I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back so that when I launch an action in Illustrator I don't have to hold down the fn key, along with whatever other modifier key I may be using to distinguish between a couple other action assigned to that key. I have turned my capslock into command-alt-shift and that helps a lot, I want additional meta keys that I can use for command-shift and command-alt while still having the existing meta keys, not less - this has nine unmarked keys in the default layout, and two of those are probably slated for becoming space and return; my Mac has exactly the same number of meta keys if I count capslock, and dedicated space/return buttons.
Their Moonlander's much more sensible, with a baker's dozen of meta keys around each half's keyboard block. Hitting a little one-handed chord almost seems reasonable, compared to all the one-handed stretches I've got in my daily art routine. I'd be super-tempted by this or an Ergodox EZ if they were putting them on sale because they are no longer the new hotness, they might actually see integration into my workflow, but there's absolutely no price difference.
Maybe I'll just get baked and spend an hour futzing with this idea I just had to make the f-keys of my Mac's keyboard accessible by having Karabiner translate a chord of (fkey)+(the key to its left) into (fkey). I already have the baked part. And that works on my existing laptop keyboard as well as the 90%-identical Apple wireless board on my desk...
EDIT:
I did indeed spend an hour swearing at Karabiner's config file and make f(n)+f(-1) into f(n) and it is wonderful, and I am going to make a fn+f(n)=(nothing) rule to train myself to use it. Thanks for the inspiration, keyboard with too few bucky bits!
This is my issue as well. I want a "normal" keyboard, only ergonomic, split, with all the fancy joint happiness that brings.
It seems these are impossible to find without some kind of 3d printing and DIY from scratch.
I am not able to invest in learning a new keyboarding process because I have to work on too many different computers over a year span that I have no control over, and I don't want my muscle memory to erode because of one special keyboard on my home workstation.
The closest I've found is the Perixx PERIBOARD which I have not yet tried in person. If anyone has other suggestions, it would be much appreciated.
MS ergo keyboard's (current mainstay) keys fail every so often, so I have to buy a new one every so often. So yes, something with mechanical keys would be great.
Can see the options here: https://wylderbuilds.com/all-sizes
This is part of the challenge I face, so I am living with MS ergonomic keyboards until I can either try one of these first, or take a risk.
My one complaint is I find the space bar too large. I started used the Freestyle after decades of MS Natural keyboards. It took a while to get used to the size of the space bar.
I think this number of keys in this layout strikes a good balance between portability and usability.
The trouble is, I think most would be willing to maybe 'snap together' the keys and such, but not find a local PCB factory and have them create the boards and such.
Also, the cost should be only ~$100 or less if the device requires DIY.
I tried to quickly find information on how to create this board, or how to buy it directly from somewhere, or just how much it may cost to DIY, and I didn't easily see that type of information.
Ultimately, this is the best keyboard in this thread for this class (very portable, configurable, split kb). This is even better than the Voyager due to the added thumb keys.
This saddens me, because I put a _lot_ of work into the README for this project. There is a BOM list with all the part numbers you need, pre-made Gerbers for you to send to any PCB house, a vector image for SendCutSend, and step-by-step instructions for soldering and setup. Please give it a re-read and let me know what information is missing.
I'm sorry no one has adopted this board for "mass"-production. It really was a labor of love, and I'm not super into the custom keyboard scene. I could learn how to do some marketing, I suppose.
Thank you for the nice words and praise. It means a lot.
Just be aware that the build quality is terrible. I had two Matias keyboards, neither lasted a year... And I type lightly, preferring 35 gram keys. At $250 each it is quite the investment. But, honestly, they are worth the price. They are _that_ comfortable.
I got one that broke after a month, I got a replacement (still had to pay like 50 euros of tax because they shipped from outside of europe) that also broke after a month. In both cases some keys started typing twice.
I'm a long time user of the Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 but they are hard to find now. Don't like the MS Sculpt that much - spongy escape key and those flat keys in general. I've got one in a drawer as a backup for when the 4000 dies, but I'm not looking forward to it.
I recently got a Keyboardio 100[1] but am really finding it hard to adapt to. Moving things like many symbol keys (e.g. "[]\{}|/+=-_") to different locations or layers is a real pain for programming. I really don't know if I'll persist. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful keyboard, but requires too much adaptation for me.
The closest potential I've found is the X-Bows Knight[2] although the cost of getting one out to the Antipodes makes it a risky proposition if I end up not coping with it.
[1] https://shop.keyboard.io/products/model-100 [2] https://x-bows.com/products/x-bows-knight-ergonomic-mechanic...
Those keys are in my opinion perfectly placed on regular keyboards and no amount of layering, tap dancing or anything else will ever come close. Please somebody just make a split ergo keyboard where the right side has extra keys for regular programming symbols on the top layer. The two halves do not need to be symmetrical.
The intent is "be able to press F1-F12 without having to move hands so far from home row"; it's not "I want a smaller keyboard and don't need F1-F12".
For example, let's say you need to do Shift-Option-F12. First, you need to hold a modifier to bring your F key layer, possibly a separate or chorded modifier to get you to the F-keys above 10 since you only have have 10 numeric digits. Then, that needs to be compatible with both your shift modifier AND your option modifier, which with only 2 thumb keys per side it probably won't be. So, then you think, oh no worries, I'll just set up a single shortcut that does what I need, but then you end up with a profusion of shortcuts that you need to remember.
I've found that in practice, I can't really go much below 58 keys and 3 layers without requiring tap-and-hold or losing some of my less-frequently used chars (` comes to mind), so I can sympathize with the ancestor posts.
It's "I don't mind moving my hand to hit the key" vs "I don't mind holding down some Fn key to hit the key". (Or with F1-F12 on Macbooks, you need to both hold down a Fn key and move your hand).
For an example of "36 keys ... how", I think the popular miryoku layout is fascinating. https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku/tree/master/docs/re... -- Often, mnemonics for particular keys aren't all that complicated.
- Layer transition fatigue: If you have many layers, it can be difficult to remember which key(s) triggers them. This can be improved with time and practice. In addition, you might want to arrange the symbols on your layers to minimize the amount of layer transitions needed. For example, if you type ./ a lot if would be nice if they were on the same layer and either a roll or an alternation.
- Awkward finger patterns: if we go back to the ./ example, if for some reason you decide / must go on another layer, then you probably want / to be close to period. If you design your layer in a way where / ends up under qwerty P, then you’ll have to contort your fingers to make the ./ pattern. This gets way more complicated when you consider all the possible symbol patterns such as ->, =>, :=, </, ./, [i], [j], |>, (“, “), ):, etc…
- Unexpected layer transition same finger usage: people will sometimes naively put layer transition keys in suboptimal places. For instance, if you use right thumb for space, then I would argue it’s a bad idea to use another right thumb key for shift. The reason is because in between sentences you put a space after the previous sentence and then press shift to capitalize the next letter. If they space and shift are on the same finger then you will probably find this sequence uncomfortable. A similar logic applies for backspace. I would argue space and backspace should be on the same thumb because they are pretty much mutually exclusive. Also your space thumb is used to repeating, and backspacing often involves a lot of repeating.
Overall, I think layers do have a lot of potential to work, but I feel like there aren’t many tools to help people iron out all these subtle issues. I’ve been working on making such a tool, but testing it takes a lot of time due to the first point.
Of course it has F1-12, it's just in a better place. It's completely programmable, so you can choose something that makes sense to you.
Using key combination for basic keys is like using mouse to emulate keyboard.
If my IDE requires me pushing SHIFT + F3, I would need now to push SHIFT+ALT+F3? How is that in any way more ergonomic? I assume split keyboards are the golden standard of ergonomic design (or I thought they should be).
I've found that the hotkeys I most frequently use I moved in to more convenient hotkeys/macros (for example code folding/unfolding to three common levels, debugger stepping), while others just stayed where they were.
I would say that you'd probably want to try a larger keyboard than the Voyager though if that's a concern though. I'm reticent to try such a smaller keyboard, and I found the ~70 keys of the Moonlander to be more inline with what I like.
I use F all over the place in VS-code and have them all mapped on my dygma raise.
Same with # under a, and all of the brackets under erdfcv keys
... I use IDEs from JetBrains, a company that seems to view muscle memory for crazy keyboard shortcuts as a moat.
The biggest change for me on the Dygma raise was the thumb cluster. I moved my backspace to my thumb, as well as different layer shifting keys. The muscle memory is quite easy to learn, since your brain is already "expecting" to use your thumb to shift to other functionality (since we use our thumb to press command), so it simply makes all my vscode shortcuts 2 simple strokes instead of 3 or more.
Also moved my arrow keys under my fingers on a different layer, makes it so you don't need to move your hands when navigating around code. On that same layer I added option + arrows as well for fast navigation.
With QMK, "layers" aren't this whole giant huge deal. It's like hitting the shift key, except just a different physical key, probably by your thumb.
More details on this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37398872
I like the all the case options and mods available to the ZSA keyboards. The biggest problem with building your own I feel is the cost of getting a nice, solid feeling case.
[1] https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside/tree/main/hillside46 [2] https://i.imgur.com/i0VkWG1.jpeg
Depending on the context (mostly in games), I sometimes hit "B" with a thumb on my Ergodox. I think holding B/V for layer toggles could work on this board?
Why does no one build a split keyboard that has the exact same layout as a MacBook? I feel like that would be my holy grail. I don't even care about mechanical switches (I know, blasphemy!)
I may pick one up for comparison. But, just noting that there is a comparable open source design available. ;)
But budget options pretty much demand a variety of skills.
DIY boards require soldering, and flashing firmware to the microcontrollers. If a mistake is made when soldering, this can be very difficult to diagnose, and harder to fix. -- Paying someone else to solder is sometimes an option, but can be expensive, too.
Even with cheap boards from e.g. AliExpress, you still might have to be familiar with flashing firmware.
For someone with more time than money, DIY is a good option.
With ZSA, I feel I can at least recommend a reputable brand; I'm not sure I can recommend DIY assembly to most people.
I have an ErgoDox EZ at home, and a Moonlander for work. I absolutely love these keyboards. They have played a significant role in reducing pain I experience from arthritis.
I changed the switches for some lubed linears, and added some foam and now it even sounds better. It also reduced my wrist pain.
I'm debating with myself whether to get the Moonlander or not. I don't actually need it, but it looks so cool (and the USB port of the ErgoDox is quite outdated haha).
W: "Another one?! You already have one for the house and one for the office... Where is this one going to go?"
Doesn't have to be budget micromanagement.
You might be confusing “wife is interested in my hobbies” with “wife is not happy”. The former is what you described and the latter is literally what GGGP said.
I do have a partner and she has autonomy over the money we earn together as do I, because we trust each other to make reasonable decisions.
It sounds like you and your partner have a mutual understanding of the other's spending, and your expenses are low enough and/or your income is high enough that it doesn't create problems when you spend below the implicit limits.
That's great for you, but it comes across as narrow-minded to talk as though a $400 expense is unworthy of discussion to every couple.
“Unworthy of discussion” vs. “isn’t going to be happy” is a good way to move the goalposts.
I suppose I’m just tired of the juvenile meme of “my wallet is going to hurt” or “my wife [almost always wife, and never husband; what does that say?] is going to be upset” at <insert hobby>.
If that’s the level of trust one has in their life partner, one ought to take a closer look at what’s really important to oneself.
Before this I used a thinkpad as my keyboard
I've used an "ergonomic" "split layout" keyboard for years. Specifically, I used the MSFT Natural 4000 since about 2010 due to RSI and typing-related pain. Even with that keyboard, I still had pinky/ring-finger related RSI from modifier keys (shift/ctrl/esc), but it was rather minimal if I was careful and kept my "off-hours" related typing minimal.
I picked up the Moonlander after looking at multiple truly-split keyboards including the Ergodox, Nyquist, Kinesis Advantage 2 (and later 360). I've used a Via/QMK keyboard as well and I will say that Oryx and the Configurator seem much more user-friendly and featureful.
The auto-shift feature is great, as I rarely need to use the shift key for normal typing. Having a toggle key to quickly disable it for things like gaming or the odd application that doesn't detect keydown/up for shifted keys as expected (or perhaps it's on the kbd firmware side and isn't sending a held-down shifted key, who knows) is rather useful.
Layers are your friend and don't be worried about printing out a layer map while you're learning. And don't be afraid to change your layout to try something.
I changed my layout multiple times a day for the first two or so weeks, maybe once a day for another two weeks, then perhaps once a week to once a month over the next few months. I think I last changed my layout 6 months ago to add a new shortcut for a feature added to my IDE.
If you're already accustomed to a split keyboard, expect minimal growing pains beyond learning your layer keys and such. But if it's your first time using a split KB, then you'll have that adjustment too. MSFT used to have a sculpted kb that wasn't a full split and that was a good "training wheels" kb for a split, but I don't think they make that board anymore. Basically, if you don't alrady use a split, expect to reach for keys on the other side a bit until your brain adjusts.
I also suggest using background colors in your layers to indicate hotkeys and such. It started as a crutch for me, but I've come to really like it as it serves as a bit of a reminder for those less-used shortcuts.
The ability to hot-swap your key switches and caps is great. I ended up with a highly tactile switch that isn't much louder than the usual "cherry MX browns", but that is entirely optional. The out of the box keys are perfectly fine for those not interested in that feature.
Ortholinear split takes a while to get used to but you really never want to go back to a regular keyboard after you get used to it - it makes you feel like you've been breaking your wrists.
(And yes, I see https://www.zsa.io/wireless/)
One of my co-workers was mentioning earlier that he wanted "keyboard pants." This caught my eye because he probably would like hanging it from his belt.
But... There's a wire!
It might be less effort on the vendor's part to source out a simple "wireless USB adaptor" that they can sell as an add-on instead of writing a long-winded "you're wrong" page for people who want wireless.
I would recommend buying a Dilemma instead: https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/
or building one of the hundreds of DIY open source keyboards e.g.:
- https://github.com/mmccoyd/hillside (46-56 keys)
- https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM (38 keys)
I’m rocking an Ergodox for the past few years. It’s worth every penny, but I cannot carry it around with all the cables.
My only missing feature is layer support, so if anyone from Keychron is listening....
See this comment chain: https://old.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/s95y98/is_bluetooth_w...
I have their other keyboard, the Raise, and its unbelievably good. I modded the heck out of it and now folks come up to me just the press the keys.
Alternatively keebmaker sell wireless cornes and Ferris sweeps - you’re best off getting the sweep because the leds on the Corne drain the battery life even when they’re switched off.
I have an Ergodox and a Moonlander (and a bunch of other keyboards), but I've already decided I'm not getting anything new until it's available in a wireless option.
It is hard to explain to people who never tried qmk layers that more keys doesn't mean better keyboard, having proper layers on home row is many times more ergonomic. One of the things that don't click unless you try I guess.
I won't buy this keyboard. It doesn't have anything attractive to me. 2 thumb keys are not enough. It is wired. It is flat. If I wanted something like that, I'd buy some variant of corne, and it would be more suited for my needs and cheaper.
It still has qmk, and ZSA's configurator is the best that is there, but the same rehashed idea is of a keyboard is not what I wanted. I really hoped for dactyl-like wireless. But I guess that ZSA is too tied to qmk now, and qmk has issues with wireless.
To me I immediately associate it with an unprofessional, cheap look.
I don't really like having a lightshow on my keyboard so the LEDs are off all the time for me but in the past I've used them to change color depending on the layout I'm using for instance. I'm sure a more creative hacker could come up with something useful.
Yes, RGB has been popular for many years now. Nice that I can pick any color or color pattern I like
Not only that half the RGB keyboards fuck out fairly quickly or have power and USB problems.
Electric truck nuts. That's all it is.
I switch backlight colors based on layout. The default typing layer is in my favorite shade of blue, then when I'm on my "ide shortcut/F-key layer" then it switches to a complementary share of orange. When I'm on my "common shortcuts/media control" layer it switches to purple for valid shortcut keys while the media keys have their own color layout to more quickly indicate where back/fwd/play/mute is.
No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.
I have a key that toggles between keyboard layers, of which there are three. Different layers are assigned different colors. If I forget which layer I'm on then I can just glance at the keyboard and know. The LEDs are similar in purpose to a Caps Lock indicator.
And for the third layer, which has only a dozen or so keys defined, the keys that are defined are lit up in their own color. This layer sees less use than the first two, so it is helpful guidance to remember which are defined.
I have criticisms about the keyboard -- Moonlander -- but none are about the LEDs. The LEDs are useful and not simply moronic eye-candy as you seem to imply.
"What range of colors can these LEDs I'm selling display."
Some people don't like the lighting at all, and that's ok. It's a preference and you control it. If you don't like changing colors or lighting whatsoever, then turn it off.
I switch backlight colors based on layout. It helps me remember where less frequently used shortcuts are, and is rather useful to me and I'm sure many others use it in a similar manner. And plenty of people just set a color that matches the color scheme of their desk, office, or computer.
Same. I use Dvorak as my primary layer, as well as blank keycaps, and have a QWERTY gaming layer that has LEDs outlining the standard gaming keys (WASD, crouch, etc).
It's good to use the thumbs more than the pinky fingers. -- But, I'd think an introductory keyboard would retain modifier keys for the pinky fingers to use.
I fully understand the decisions that were made, and while ZSA's keyboards are phenomenal, there is no way I'd buy one at a 404€ price point (including French VAT, excluding customs costs which would bump it to around 450€). The Planck EZ was great because its price point made it justifiable, mine coming around at ~320€ including VAT and customs, which is the max amount of money I'd be willing to spend.
I don't think we'll ever see something like the Planck EZ again (as in a very compact and more affordable option) since the Voyager is the new "laptop solution", and that honestly sucks.
(Side note for anyone pedant enough to care: these customs costs are both actual customs import taxes and the fee taken by the courier for customs processes)
A very easy 'snap together' like keyboard bought in different components should at least knock the price down to ~$100
https://keebmaker.com/collections/custom-keyboards/products/...
Equally as expensive, but really good, team is very responsive and involved with the community, and their customization software is getting better and better.
Also wireless option.
I just ended up giving up on trying to use their stuff, and opted for software based remapping instead
I've seen some split keyboards have a tripod mount option. But, otherwise, I've not seen ideas for sharing 'accessories' across multiple split keyboard designs.
---
Edit: kept scrolling, yes you can.