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Comment by 101008 | Hacker News Reader

I understand the idea behind this page (and I really liked it), but the title made me think of more a "philosophical" question... do any webpage exists if nobody visits it?

If the page is a static HTML you could say that yes, it exists in the webserver as a file. But what about dynamic webpages.

The frontpage of New York Times (I guess it is generated dynamically from a database)... does it exists if no one access NYT? Do any dynamic webpage exists if no one requests it? Being available and ready to be requested doesn't mean the webpage exists... does it?

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> Do any dynamic webpage exists if no one requests it

Matter of perspective/semantics. A more general thought experiment in the same vein: Can you stand in the same river twice?

To answer the question: "does it [exist]?" you have to first define what a "it" (a dynamic webpage) is. My answer in response is "Is it cached?" if no, then no. Whether or not a person is involved at all is irrelevant imo. But I define a dynamic webpage by the existance of the DOM, not the services that generate it. I might make an exception if it can be proven those services are deterministic, which I wouldn't assume.

FTA -

Your browser retrieved it from the browser of someone currently viewing this page. You're now a part of the network and someone who loads this page in the future may get it from you!

If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p?

If browsers grew p2p capabilities [1], we could begin to bypass centralization and build truly distributed (not just federated) social networks, news systems, and the like.

Imagine not having to run "archive.is" against headlines. You just share them - tamperlessly - with others. And the comment graph. You could even begin to boost high-value content with your own algorithm that you control.

P2P in browsers would return us to where many of us thought the internet would lead us in the early 00's. The disappearance of bittorrent and arrival of central platforms like Facebook felt like the future faded away and disappeared.

People are using Discord now, but in the 00's people used completely customizable open source clients to connect to their favorite messaging platforms. You can't even imagine that today. Everything is a platform.

[1] I doubt Google would ever get behind this. Centralization reinforces their ads business.

> If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p?

you made me realize that this website is essentially torrent

(without splitting file into chunks)

>> If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p?

> you made me realize that this website is essentially torrent

how did you come to your conclusion, given that statement?

With Torrent, content flows between peers directly.

Whereas for this website, content flows between peers with the central server in between.

> You can't even imagine that today

Matrix? and to a significantly lesser extent Telegram.

Ignoring STUN/TURN, WebRTC should be able to do this. there are things like webtorrent.io

All we need is demand. Demand for non-walled garden content. Demand for less monthly subscriptions to be able to run something you already own. Demand for DRM-free content that you can share with your grandma or watch on a seperate device on a flight.

They read the article, they were making a different related point

Yes, I read the article, I was asking a different question.

A building does not exist until the materials sitting at the site are assembled.

Same principle applies to dynamic webpages.

But what if the materials are assembled "automatically" every time someone tries to enter the building :D

Same situation as before, the materials remain as they were until an external influence triggers the "build".

A dynamic page is not assembled until the HTTP request (i.e external) sets things in motion.

Only the route exists until visited. Only then does the page exist.

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