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Comment by vinni2 | Hacker News Reader

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

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Hypocrisy? They're not allowed to improve in other areas just because they sell oil? What in the world are you on about? This is not what hypocrisy is.

Yes it is hypocrisy because Norway claims to be a green country ignoring all the emissions from the fossil fuel industry and the oil and gas exported. They use these petty schemes and policies to project themselves as green while the big issue is ignored.

Here is an article about the issue https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/17/norway-u...

There's actually a Norwegian show about Norway getting invaded and occupied by Russia, with support by the EU, because they decided to stop producing and exporting fossil fuels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied

Norway doesn’t decide to phase out oil, consumers do.

The world needs 100 million barrels a day.

We are at peak coal too.

https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at...

That’s not exactly true. When the Russian gas stopped the adoption of renewables accelerated in Germany and other places in Europe. If oil is phased out people will adapt. Most of Norwegian oil customers are in Europe so switching to renewable energy and phasing out oil is doable. Instead Norway wants to explore oil in the arctic.

Why would the Russian gas situation have done that? The natural gas from Russia was used for power plant generation, and electricity prices skyrocketed, since Germany doesn't have its own sustainable electric supply.

Norway on the other hand has more oil than it could ever use, as well as hydropower.

> Why would the Russian gas situation have done that?

Because the countries are realizing how relying on foreign oil and gas makes them vulnerable.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/how-t...

I think we realized that half a century ago in the 1970’s

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s_energy_crisis

But hey, feel free to make it up as you go. Most of the time people won’t call you on it.

I’m not a Donald Trump fan so I won’t be posting his warning about depending on Russian gas.

So, please don’t insult us with statements that are clearly silly:

“Because the countries are realizing how relying on foreign oil and gas makes them vulnerable.”

People forget hard-learned lessons all the time. Doesn't mean the lessons aren't true, or that people didn't learn them at the time, just that we're bad at remembering things when it's convenient to forget them.

This is not 70s cost of renewables has gone down drastically.

>> If oil is phased out people will adapt.

Sure, just hope you don't freeze to death while "adapting"

That did little to offset the decades of German madness of transitioning to Russian gas in the first place, and closing nuclear power plants while building more coal ones.

Phasing out oil in Europe will make people "adapt" by outsourcing the remaining industrial production to Asia. The conflict (not necessarily military) with China imminent, and weaning off Chinese imports will be way more difficult than Russian ones, especially when you're deindustrialized.

No they don't. Consumers will go for the cheapest way to get what they want. End oil subsidies and alternatives become more attractive. Tax oil and they come more attractive still. Ban it and they'll look to bikes.

And yes, of course Norway can decide to phase out oil production.

> Norway doesn’t decide to phase out oil, consumers do.

A yes, "it's YOUR fault, YOU should be ashamed, bad consumer !"

It's not the industries or governments job to plan and regulate things, it's the people's job, of course. It's like going to the doctor for a cancer to be told "sorry we can't do anything the cancer wants to keep growing, we can't use chemo the cancer didn't approve it sorry" lmao

> People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

Then, there's no need to continue offering an incentive - because behavior was successfully changed.

It's worth reading about their strategy for the $1.5 trillion (!) in assets they hold:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

Observation and exclusion of companies: https://www.nbim.no/en/responsible-investment/exclusion-of-c...

There was a great article a few years back relating oil from modern Norway to opium from the British in China, forcing them to sell a toxic product the British would never allow their own people to consume.

VAT on EVs isn’t the only mechanism, there is also a one-time toll related to vehicle weight in the works.

I know but people still need cars and they will buy it even if it costs twice as much. When public transportation is not convenient and reliable there is not really much choice.

people will continue to take cars whenever cars are faster than public transit. Compare your travel route options on Google maps. My partner commutes about 20 miles to work and driving takes 45 min to an hour and 1/4 depending on time of day. even though we live a mile and 1/2 from a major train stop, it would take her an 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours to use public transportation to get to work.

until public transit fixes the time inefficiency problem, it's fighting an uphill battle.

Don’t get high on your own supply.

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