Elon Musk says he withheld Starlink over Crimea to avoid escalation | Hacker News Reader

Elon Musk says he withheld Starlink over Crimea to avoid escalation

bbc.com

32 pointslacrimacida23 comments

Musk seems to think defending yourself is "escalation"

and saving the Russian Navy to bomb civilians was a righteous cause. He bought into Russian propaganda that Nuclear War was an option. Putin played him like a fiddle. Some folks are say his actions have prolonged the war.

Well I'm sure the US Gov had him and Shotwell against the wall and now has their piece of the pie (Star Shield) so he can't fuck things up for anyone else.

Putin played him like a fiddle or Musk himself has much bigger interests and does favors.

I'm expecting him to run for President at some point, unfortunately

Illegal

Fortunately, that’s impossible, and likely to remain so: he’s definitely not a natural-born US citizen, and changing that would require 2/3 of both houses of Congress and 38 state legislatures to agree.

That's kind of silly because Putin is going to go out like Stalin did.

>or Musk himself has much bigger interests and does favors.

I don't want another moron like Trump, Musk needs to stick to cars and rockets.

Musk burned one side of his image quite irrecoverably. My opinion of him, not that it matters much, changed when he took over twitter. Previously, and without digging too deep I thought he was an excentric bloke who was still on the good side of things and genuinely wanted to make the world a better place, the benefit of the doubt he got that I didn’t know much of him. He now appears to me just like any othet insecure power hungry flawed billionare out there. And even worse, he orchestrated scams, eg, dogecoin rugpulls on SNL and so on. Yes, he’s good with money but has no ethics or conscience at all. And him being worshipped by his followers and fans may not only be a byproduct of his fame but something he needs to feed on.

Crimea is traditionally Tartar, and majority Russian. It was always an autonomous region, and it was taken quickly and without a fight in 2014. In the intervening 7 years it wasn’t contested like the Donbas (beyond Ukraine cutting off the water supply). Without exculpating Russia for its numerous war crimes and atrocities, bringing the war into Crimea is effectively opening a new theater. Yes, Crimea is officially Ukrainian territory, but it would definitely be an escalation of the conflict.

I would expect the US to retake New Hampshire instead of just letting an occupying force keep it regardless of what the majority was. Land has tactical/resource values.

False comparison. New Hampshire is ethnically, politically and geographically American, and has been since before the revolution (that would be more like fighting for the Donbas). The Crimea would be more like if Russia took over one of America’s outlying dependencies like Puerto Rico. In fact Russia did that in 1959 with Cuba, and ultimately the US had to back down and cede it to the Soviets to avoid nuclear war.

Coming from a Ukrainian, no.

Your assumptions regarding the ethnicity and makeup of the Crimea are straight from Russian propaganda attempting to soften the perception of their actions.

I can tell you with complete confidence we do not view the Crimea as “an outlying dependency”. It was as if Canada had crossed the border into the US and taken a state.

That's why Ukraine's government has been absolutely firm about its intention to liberate Crimea, along with every other occupied territory.

> bringing the war into Crimea is effectively opening a new theater

Considering that Crimea seems to take a cruise missile or two every month and we know that the Ukrainians have done a cross sea raid on Crimea.

How is it a new theatre? its already one.

The day things started going boom in Crimea is the day it became a theatre in the war, and that was a long time ago.

> but it would definitely be an escalation of the conflict.

How do you escalate a conflict where you're being invaded and the invader not only denies your right to exist but also is adamant in committing genocide to remove you even from history books?

> it was taken quickly and without a fight in 2014.

That is the same thing they tried to do to Kiev more recently. Take it quickly and without a fight.

If that had succeeded, would we say Ukrainians have no right to "escalate the conflict" by trying to throw Russians out of Kiev? Would Musk help Russians in that case too?

Well, it was an Ukranian offense against some Russian military infrastructure, which he probably feared would spiral down to nukes landing in Washington (because he's a genius, you see /s). Regardless, it's fucking obnoxious of Musk (what else is new) to think he knows better and to intervene in this war.

But then again, I have half a percentage of empathy, if North Korea was about to use your *aaS to launch a deadly nuke attack, would you suspend their service, or sit around and say "none of my business". Except in this case, as usual with him, Musk misjudged the whole thing and showed his preference for another rouge leader...

Here’s the definition of Treason under US law:

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

> ... adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere

It seems to me, that is what happened here. Russia is an enemy of US, at least at the moment. Musk gave Russia (an enemy of US) aid by preventing Ukrainians from using drones against Russia.

I am curious, how will US respond to Musk?

Will Musk respond by claiming Russia is not an enemy of US?

Ukraine Generals have said they wouldn’t be in this war without the value starlink is bringing. Completely upended assumptions about the battlefield.

Russia had no idea what real time intelligence was about to enable defenses to accomplish with 1:10th the resources.

Some day nation-states will have these capabilities so that we don’t have to leave realpolitik to billionaires.

[dupe]