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See the Maximite link below, its pretty straight forward.

You've touched upon some of the key issues. But let me walk through them with you and perhaps we'll get to a similar place ...

"All 3 solutions run Skype, let you create and manipulate documents and play games."

You've outlined some desirable features of this 'computer.' Skype, documents, and game playing. There is a trap here which I've discovered and that is with price. If a computer is 'expensive,' and any new laptop, netbook, or desktop computer will fall into that category, it has to have things which justify its existence/purchase. On the other hand, if the computer does not cost very much, people often dismiss it as a toy. (We have many exemplars from LeapFrog and others which fit this category).

If you had the equivalent of an Apple II (but upgraded to some recent microprocessors) you could have a computer which was programmable (and games of the type that make you think versus fast twitch) could be made for it, and on which you could edit documents but not change fonts or any of that stuff necessarily. And it cost less than $50 and the only 'breakable' parts were the keyboard and the TV you hooked it up to, it might be a different story.

"An Android tablet would seem to be the best solution when coupled with App Inventor. Sadly App Inventor doesn't run on Android itself so you have to have a non-Android computer to do your development work."

This is one of those things that is an issue for me as well. When I tried to use Arduinioes for teaching programming you run into a barrier of getting two computers rather than just one. And sadly the ecosystem of windows, Linux, and MacOS make compatibility a real drain.

"I could of course setup emulators so she gets a Sinclair Spectrum and Apple //e and can learn just how I did, but things have moved on."

I would hear more about 'moved on' ? Do you mean that you have moved on? Or that computer science has moved on? The beauty of these simple systems is that they are simple. They teach you to 'think' computer and that is tremendously powerful when you attack more modern systems. Sort of like a lawn mower motor on a tube frame with a centrifugal clutch isn't really a 'motorcycle' (its a minibike) but it is a great teaching tool on the concepts involved.

One of the areas that could use help on today is graphics. Back in the day there were some great pre-packaged graphics chips with full documentation that you could use to attach to your microprocessor. Sadly those days are gone. The good news however is that nearly every 'intro to FPGAs' class has a part where you build a video chip out of an FPGA. And they are now as cheap as those old customs chips. I've spec'd out a design which is a dual buffered HDMI output with a sprite based HW cursor. Its surprisingly cost effective (parts wise), and since it doesn't care about HDCP compliance its actually pretty simple.

With an open access graphics subsystem, a modest ARM core CPU, some memory, and USB plugs for "disks" and "keyboards" I think we could build a system that works well for learning about computers from 'Wow' to pretty sophisticated data structures. But that is getting ahead of myself.

I would hear more about 'moved on'?

Unless the kid becomes a programmer, the experience won't be relevant. Now, you could argue it improves thinking skills etc etc, but bare hardware is really only one layer of the abstraction chain- the layer you are probably most fond of. Every other layer- wiring, circuit design, device engineering, physics, and so on- are no less valid, but you probably can't do all of them. This is because we have to pick and choose which layers of abstraction to spend our time in- which gives the most bang for our buck; which is most relevant. For most people, "how to use a computer" in the office appliance sense is the most valuable.

> See the Maximite link below, its pretty straight forward.

Not everyone has VGA monitors hanging around (they don't) and only being able to do stuff in one place (where the monitor is) is a significant handicap over a tablet or netbook/mini that can be used anywhere.

While your theory about pricing is correct, in this case the parents really do want to spend about $500 and they really do need Skype, documents and game playing as the existing many year old family laptop is in its last legs. So yes they could buy two things - a cheapo for the kid and a second family laptop replacement, but that is not an optimal route to go. (The parents already have laptops, tablets and smartphones between them.)

> I would hear more about 'moved on'

When I was young having a tty program that asked your name and printed "hello $name" was cool. Nowadays a kid is not going to impress a friend with that. Remember that positive feedback is very reinforcing. On the other hand having an Android app that asks your name in a gui and gives a gui response is so much more familiar. App Inventor has media players, camera recording etc which is so much more modern and expressive. I'd much rather see her making an app where you record yourself saying your name, and then it says "hello $name" with your recording and text to speech.

> With an open access graphics subsystem, a modest ARM core CPU, some memory, and USB plugs for "disks" and "keyboards"

That just won't work. They skipped the whole generation of computers made up of discrete bits (processors, displays, disks, keyboards etc). Instead normal to them is integrated devices (processor, display, storage, wireless network, input mechanisms) and you pickup and use wherever takes your fancy.

You are solving the wrong problem. What you are doing, is searching for an environment for a person unfamiliar with computers. This should be a second step really. The first step should be (I think) "what should I buy for 10 YEAR OLD". First of all - I think that netbooks AND notebooks (from 7" to 20") for a child is a bad idea. Netbooks (7" to 10") is especially bad idea. You should consider her eyesight - small, high dpi display very close to the eyes is bad. Consider scoliosis probability - because keyboard is fixed right below the screen and can't disconnected (except 1-2 special rare big notebooks). Consider RSI (repetitive strain injury) to hands, neck etc., hands especially. This can be caused by bad keyboard (all notebooks I think), screen keyboards (on extended use, like writing code, essays etc.), even bad mouse (cause hand position on the mouse is unnatural, it is a 90* turn from ideal position). Developed hand RSI is unbearably painful, considerably limits keyboard usage and heals very, very bad. This is just what I would consider. Ask a medic and he'll tell you more.

tl;dr No notebooks and probably tablets for 10 year old. Buy adjustable table, adjustable chair, classic desktop with some ergonomic keyboard and mouse (both with wrist support). Set up timed lockout on the PC, like 10 minutes every 1-2 hours. Lockout after 24:00 and lockout on total uptime per day. After that choose OS from your experience, it doesn't matter really (I think).

I promise, she'll thank you 15 years later.

Set up timed lockout on the PC, like 10 minutes every 1-2 hours

That would be more than enough to discourage me of ever becoming proficient at this. The "zone" applies when you're just learning too, and breaking it is extremely frustrating. Can you imagine closing the lid of the piano just as the kid is playing some difficult piece correctly for the first time?

There should be limits, but they should be soft and enforced by whoever is watching the child, who can presumably understand if (s)he's really excited or just bullshitting on Miniclip or IM.

My points:

1. No one stops you from keeping "zone" feeling during lockout, you can just drink something (what actually helps to think a lot is to drink regularly) or sit for a while with closed eyes thinking about problem, etc.

1a. I sincerely think that regular breaks actually help solving problems (at least in some cases).

2. Schools use timed breaks and in rare cases of interesting classes they do not discourage students to learn. Of course schools should be optimized more, I'm not arguing that.

3. Timed lockout is not target, invented just to prevent illness, it is also a method. Method to teach self discipline, even to begin teaching self discipline in some cases. No one will tell you how to optimize living when you'll grow up, that is why we read a lot of articles about people who burn out on a job.

Later it is insanely hard to go from super lazy, undisciplined student to focused worker.

Solving problems is what you do after you learn to code. A kid is still just poking and experimenting, and a hard lockout is, in my experience as a kid myself, a great way to kill that excitement. I'm not saying you shouldn't have regular breaks, I'm saying a kid should have leeway to use e.g. half an hour more and then do a longer break, not feel a pressure to finish stuff in a hurry before it locks out.

Schools use timed breaks and in rare cases of interesting classes they do not discourage students to learn.

Obviously we have very different experiences.

3. Timed lockout is not target, invented just to prevent illness, it is also a method. Method to teach self discipline, even to begin teaching self discipline in some cases. No one will tell you how to optimize living when you'll grow up, that is why we read a lot of articles about people who burn out on a job.

First, I'm not opposed to lockouts. I'm opposed to inflexible, computer enforced lockouts.

Secondly, is there any evidence that timed lockouts actually help with self discipline?

I like the idea of timed lockout. Teaches the kids how to budget.

> What you are doing, is searching for an environment for a person unfamiliar with computers

Where did I say she is unfamiliar with computers? Her and her younger sister already use an almost dead family laptop for Skype, creating documents and playing games. They were figuring out how to search for Dora games before they could spell (use phonetics). They are far more proficient at Angry Birds than you will ever be and not too bad at Desktop Tower Defence. Homework essays are compiled via online research and includes lots of pictures and nice layout.

Human beings are not as fragile as your response implies.

The RSI risk and your other ergonomic notes have nothing to do with someone's age.

I completely agree with 'icebraining' concerning your idea of computer-forced strictly timed lockouts: not a good idea.

  Consider scoliosis probability [..]

Now you are just making plausibly sounding stuff up to support your position. No link between scoliosis and laptop use has ever been established and there is no reason to suppose a link, except for a naive idea about the bodily position during 'laptop use' and 'spine deformity'.

In my experience, if you introduce kids to Linux, they learn pretty fast.

In my college days, I used to help students of a government school. It is a very undeveloped area and kids don't have computers at home. All school computers ran Linux and students (aged 11-12) didn't face any difficulty in using Linux.

I used to give this example to my classmates when they blamed Linux :-)

Remember that you were there to do any system administration. Any kid will have no problem figuring out virtually any desktop be it Windows, Mac or one of many alternatives of Linux. After all you (double) click on whatever you want and if it is already running often the program will be brought to the front instead of a new copy.

But consider what happens when Ubuntu does an update - if pam gets updated you get a list of services to restart that is gobbeldy gook to almost all.

And most operating systems still make adding printers confusing, and troubleshooting printing issues virtually impossible.

AIDE runs on android tablets. Perhaps not as easy as App Inventor but no other computer needed. But I don't think I would recommend Android for someone in a country in which they can't access the Market/Play/whatever-they-call-it-next-month.

> AIDE runs on android tablets

You seriously think that AIDE is appropriate for a kid who is proficient at using computers but has never written a program in her life? How many months do you think it would take to walk her through hello world and what do you think the chances are of her getting it?

> But I don't think I would recommend Android for someone in a country in which they can't access the Market/Play/whatever-they-call-it-next-month

I apologise for being a little loose in my language. Her mom already has two Android devices (tablet and phone) and they sell very well there - usual pattern: BlackBerry was king and is being dethroned.

You can access Android Market but you can't buy anything, and a lot of content that is freely available in other countries does not show up. But your gmail will stay up to date and you do get Skype.

There's also a Clojure interpreter for Android devices (including tablets), which I think has potential. Unfortunately, it is currently slow and tedious enough that it isn't good for much more than "Hello Lisp!" sorts of exercises.

AIDE comes with a hello world program as the first thing it prompts you to try. So, iirc, one just has to hit "run", "install", and "open" to have it going. As for "getting it", that worry is very real. No, I don't think java and the android environment is nice enough that I would want to hand it off to a kid to play with without instruction. There is lots of cruft and more abstractions in play than needed right off the bat, and nothing to say which the kid should be paying attention to.

There looks to be a BASIC interpreter in the Play Store for free, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.free.basic. It doesn't have an integrated editor though, so the kid would have to understand typing things up in one program and running them in another.

Grabbing and trying it... some helpful examples to load would be nice, it doesn't have any. But it does have an "Enter Live" mode, in which one can type up a program and run it. So all that "don't miss a keystroke" charm of the old days is there. This I might very well hand to a kid.