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Comment by zolbrek | Hacker News Reader

>Sales of diesel models have declined rapidly in Europe since Volkswagen's emission-cheating scandal and carmakers have been gradually reducing the number of diesel models available in their model lineups.

That's about the time the EU effectively mandated the use of AdBlue for diesels. AdBlue is a massive pain in the ass and I'm glad not to have to deal with it.

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AdBlue is water with ammonia, cheaper than fuel if you know where to buy, and you need like 1% as much of it as fuel. Read about wood gas generators if you want to know about a real pain in the ass to run a car.

I buy a 10L jug every 4500Km for my car, last time I bought one it was 15€, don't see what is the pain to deal with it.

I have a Sharan which needs 10 liters of AdBlue every 18 months or so

Less of a pain in the ass than wiper fluid and blades.

But it will be the last combustion car I own. The Zoe is out preferred car for most trips.

> AdBlue is a massive pain in the ass and I'm glad not to have to deal with it.

What are you talking about? I have a diesel and you really only need to top off DEF about as often as you change oil. Your service people will top it off for you, and just about any place that sells diesel in America sells DEF too.

How about the fact that DEF freezes at 12 degrees Fahrenheit, so in order to maintain it in liquid form it has to have an always on tank heater in winter. And if your battery happens to die for an unrelated reason in winter it can cause a thousand dollars in damage to the emissions system.

Or how about the fact that the regulations enforcing use of def cause you to be unable to use your vehicle after 500 miles of it detecting any kind of system fault. So imagine you are 10 minutes into a multi-hundred mile drive and an emissions fault pops up. By the time you get home you have about 120 miles of driving before you will not be able to start your vehicle. Now, you call the 2 dealers within 100 miles and due to a thing called the pandemic the soonest you can get a service appointment is over a month out.

AdBlue is enough of a pain in the ass that it is the reason I had to buy a second car. How's that for saving the environment.

Sure but what about all the people dying premature deaths due to respiratory and heart diseases with clear, well understood, and well established links to diesel particulate pollution?

That's what particle filters are for.

So your solution is to just never go outside?

How is that related to particle filters?

I think you might have replied to the wrong post.

In what way is it a "massive pain the ass"? I buy 5 or litres from my local supermarket or petrol station once or twice a year, undo cap ad poor it in. It;s a lot less annoying than having to fill the washer bottle

Well, in my situation my truck complained about a problem with the DEF fluid. The truck then proceeded to reduce my maximum speed in increments until thought the fluid was good. It turned out to be a faulty sensor.

Have you tried cleaning up an AdBlue spill that's had time to dry? I apprenticed at an auto shop before I switched to metalworking and I had to deal with a number of AdBlue messes. Newer cars make it easier to refill, but the location of the AdBlue cap in some older models makes you rummage around the luggage compartment.

God forbid you have a sensor problem with the SCR system since your modern diesel is programmed to be crippled if it reads there's no AdBlue in the tank. We had a car come in once (a Citroen or Renault I believe, I remember it was some sort of Frenchie) that needed its rear left fender to be removed to replace the damn thing and I'm 100% sure devils designed the way everything attached together.

So about as much of a pain in the arse as drinking red wine (whoops I've spilled it on the rug). Got it.

No, it's much worse.

Not to mention all the restrictions on diesel cars driving through city centres. People used to choose diesel because it was cheaper, so this disproportionately affected poor people - EU's war on personal transportation continues.

Can't say for certain in the whole of the EU but in the UK diesel hasn't been cheaper than petrol in 16 years.

I can say this with some certainty as I bought a diesel car 16 years ago partly because it would be cheaper.

    EU's war on personal transportation continues.

Very ineffective war unfortunately, as here in Germany they still seem to invest more in road building than in bike and rail extension (e.g. the A100 extension in Berlin - building a highway through the city as if it’s 1970). I wish we could be more like our neighbours in the Netherlands in this (and other) respects!

It depends on where in Germany you live. Here in MV bicycle paths have been sprouting up like weeds.

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