MDMA and the Quest for Connection in a Fractured World
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Going to rave and having people -- strangers! -- just hug me, and listen to me, and I'd listen to them and we could just talk to each other like normal people without this undercurrent of constant anxiety and fear of rejection. It was a miracle to me. And I mean that in both the banal sense and the religious sense. It wasn't just the interpersonal aspects of it, but like -- having these feelings of joy and happiness and seeing the beauty of the world wash over me in almost an overwhelming way despite the fact that absolutely _nothing_ had really changed about the world made me understand how much of my own unhappiness was internal, that i could _choose_ to see the world in a better light all the time -- not just when I was on drugs, but at any time, it was just a matter of perspective, and something that you have some level of control over.
I went from being someone who was almost completely isolated and withdrawn to learning how to DJ, to DJing at the _very same club_ that opened the world to me. I had a girlfriend within a few months, I had dozens of friends, I had a better paying job within a year, largely through connections I made at the club. I honestly think I'd have just turned into a homeless alcoholic or something without that experience. I have a hard time even imagining where I'd have ended up. I barely recognize the person that walked into that club the first night.
It's a tragedy that this drug isn't available to more people. I overdid it. A lot of people over did it, but 20 years later I don't regret any of it for a moment, even the bad nights.
The key overall is always to not abuse and that should be adressed by education, not just mindlessly prohibit everything (even tho it's not too bad to forbid stuff somethimes).
Who is to say what's "abuse" really.
Why would taking MDMA in a therapist chair be "medicine" and taking it and dancing all night long be "abuse"? Because that's how they're going to try and control it. I'm not even sure which would be healthier for you or more effective. Like, obviously there's a point where it's too much, but if you let the "medical establishment" define it, it'll definitely be defined as any point in which people might actually be having fun.
I've known people who did it nearly daily for long stretches, and others who would only take it once a month and take Prozac after to mitigate and potential damage. I'm not saying that the latter is the only non-abusive way of taking it, but clearly the former would constitute abuse.
I think it's critical that all of us (however we feel about the 'morality' of doing drugs) have the humility to acknowledge that there isn't any policy "solution" to these problems. These are humanity problems (really, animal problems, since any animal can experience addiction and chemical dependence).
It is arguably deeply unfair to prohibit people from experiencing the best that these substances have to offer (and I don't just mean in a therapy setting). But it's also dangerous to "let" them get in over their heads. Unfortunately though, the verb "let" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Even well-meaning and trusted parents aren't able to effectively guarantee their children's safety (either with prohibition or with a more lenient, discussion-based strategy). How much less effective then, is a government which isn't and can't ever be completely trusted by its citizens? No matter what, we won't 'solve' this with some perfect policy.
_Almost everyone_ who uses recreational drugs or drinks stops drinking or doing drugs _on their own_ without any intervention. There's this idea that's been propagated that drugs are this evil demon that you can never shake once you get addicted, because for people who deal with drug addicts professionally, _all they ever see_ are people who haven't quit drugs almost by definition. However, those drug addicts are a _small_ percentage of all the people who have used drugs.
https://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/matters-of-substance/archi...
Drug policy is basically based on the survivorship bias fallacy.
In other worlds, well-adjusted people with support networks rarely "get addicted" to drugs (as if they are some sort of cursed potion that anyone who consumes is afflicted).
General rule of thumb is to not even do it more than 1x-2x a year. Even then most people say that it doesn't feel as good over time.
When your brain becomes dependent on a drug that fries your brain temporarily with serotonin you will not feel as good without the drug if your brain and body becomes dependent on it to trigger normal serotonin production. Doesn't sound like a fun time to me.
https://dancesafe.org/drug-information/is-mdma-neurotoxic/#1
Bizarre we have gotten to the point where the default is "take powerful drug because no scientist has proven not to in a century long twin study!!"
In absence of a century long twin study, I'd weigh the opinions of millions of people who've taken it a few times, over the secondary source of someone who read something off some random Internet forum (reddit?) from people who are seriously abusing it (like Thursday, Friday, Saturday every weekend).
Because this is such an incredible oversimplification of what goes on in the brain. SSRIs also dramatically increase the overall serotonin flux, to the point where if you quit suddenly, the brain is left in a deficit, the effects of which can be quite unpleasant. And contrary to the "serotonin is happy chemical, more serotonin = more better" myth, the net result of all this serotonin is that 5-HT receptors actually downregulate. Ultimately, the result of all these changes is an increase in neuroplasticity.
Blasting 5-HT receptors (eg by LSD, psilocin, etc, and to an extent MDMA) is also shown to increase neuroplasticity.
Neurotoxicity and psychopharmacology are extremely complicated. It's beyond reductionist to say "drug floods brain ergo bad".
[1] Hatzidimitriou, McCann, and Ricaurte, “Altered serotonin innervation patterns in the forebrain of monkeys treated with MDMA seven years previously: Factors influencing abnormal recovery”, The Journal of Neuroscience, June 15, 1999, 19(12):5096-5107. Abstract.
The same Ricaurte that 'accidentally' gave excessive methamphetamine to monkeys intsead of MDMA. The same study.
I recommended nothing, and I didn't say there were no negative side effects. See HN guidelines please.
And no there's plenty of anecdotal evidence from long term users who never feel the same after frequent use, even after stopping. But again by your logical reasoning because there's no peer reviewed study on humans that sufficiently backs this up people should ignore that.
> And no there's plenty of anecdotal evidence from long term users who never feel the same after frequent use, even after stopping.
People who use one drug often use others, and often concurrently. People with a history of mental health are also drawn to drugs. We use science to disentangle confounders like this.
I have no problem with people advising caution in using powerful drugs, and advising against them fully if they have a family history of mental health issues. I do have a problem when people try to use flawed science to give this caution a false sense of authority, or that elevate anecdotes to the level of general scientific advice.
Aging is a thing. Most adults don’t “feel the same” after the passage of a “long term” span of time, regardless of their level of substance use.
Whatever the serotonin generation issues are (and I definitely had them, and that's why I stopped taking it), they seem to recover over time.
What's next, internet discussion forums? Is anywhere safe??? :)
(Personal observation, everyone's different though)
To me you can do it for like a year maybe if you wanna have fun, but staying in that state for more than that is on the edge of abuse.
Once again, I support trying MDMA. But most people who do it don't do their research
I myself was diagnosed with ADHD, and psychedelics healed me and my past to the point where I no longer needed prescribed stimulants, so it’s possible that MDMA could help.
I find those really depressing and they can completely outweighs the benefit of the night for me.
Mostly for me it was a matter of understanding what the cause of that was. But yes, over time it was what stopped from me from continuing to take it, but all the benefit I really got out of it, therapeutically, happened in the first 2 or 3 times I took it, before I ever had the mid-week crash. Everything after that was just for fun.
* Get a good sleep, ideally at about the same time as usual. If you normally sleep 11pm-7am then obviously a 4am-8am sleep is obviously going to have an effect on your mood. The closer you can get to your normal routine, the better. This might mean taking it pretty early, which doesn't necessarily make sense in a club setting.
* Take magnesium before/during the high to prevent gurning (if this is a problem). A sore jaw makes everything worse the next day.
* Take 5-HTP as soon as you wake up.
* Either sleep in the same house as the people you dropped with, or get back together as soon as possible in the morning. This is essential to processing the experience in a positive, social way.
* Don't have anything scheduled involving work or family for at least a couple of days afterwards, ideally a week.
https://rollsafe.org/mdma-supplements/?_ga=2.33100862.187361...
Looking back on my raving career, now retired of course, this is fantastic advice and something I would never have thought to articulate.
Growing up in a poor neighborhood I had friends who were going to parties at like 13/14. MDMA, speed, LSD.
Still good friends with some of them and they are mostly ashamed of that period, and you can see severe permanent effects of abuse on some (again we knew each other since childhood).
I tried what I could get my hands on because I was curious, and I would go out with this crowd occasionally. It's far from roses and rainbows - getting emotionally unstable people riled up - I've seen/heard scary shit.
You can draw parallels to alcohol - drinking can be great for socialisation - and alcohol can ruin people, so I guess you could say it's unfair that one is illegal.
But I don't share the sentiment either way - "I wish alcohol/drugs were available to more people" is not something I'd like to see in practice.
The regulatory status is irrelevant IMO. Personally, I know that many of the most profound experiences of my life have been mediated by alcohol. My life has certainly been changed by it.
Fossil fuels, etc.
> But I don't share the sentiment either way - "I wish alcohol/drugs were available to more people" is not something I'd like to see in practice.
Fits the fossil fuels (and modern culture?) analogy nicely!
I wish people were well-adjusted and have fulfilling and happy lives. If it takes broadly available MDMA to get there, then so be it.
> Completely unable to relate to other human beings, afraid of being touched, never had a girl friend or any kind of real friendship.
I'm convinced that most people identifying with this don't know how to articulate what their problem is. The magic words: you're struggling with intimacy.
Where MDMA isn't an option, intimacy coaches (not prostitutes-by-another-name, and not sexual surrogacy) specialize in this domain and can help you navigate these very issues.
Despite the intense good feeling while you are on it, the understanding that I am basically OK persists afterwards.
[1] (thanks parents! You pair of evil cunts. At least one of you knew exactly what you were doing, and the other one just watched as it happened in front of you and did nothing)
But your point is why I am skeptical of the value of MDMA as like a one-on-one therapeutic tool. For me, it was not just that I was having the best night of my life, but that I was surrounded by people who were also having the best night of their lives. You could just look around and make eye contact with a random person and you both _knew_.
And that community didn't just _happen_. It was the product of lots of people curating that community -- the djs, the promoters, the dancers, etc. You can't just throw drugs into any random pool of people and expect that kind of magic to happen. There was an artistry to it.
Most of it, I would bet. From experience, I can say a night out on MDMA can be almost as lonely/alienating as one on ethanol. Still super interesting and fun, but nothing as enlightening as the positive anecdotes above.
Example: if you're physically attractive, but socially stunted, an MDMA night will give you a taste of The Other Side. If your situation is the other way around, guess what - physically unattractive people are still very much unwelcome on a dance floor, and people will still make that clear to you.
This shit is tricky, which is why we need more experienced users in society who can guide newcomers through it.
It was quite unpleasant to be surrounded by these people who clearly would only associate with others who fit whatever beauty norms they justified. I'm not someone who doesn't take care of themselves either but I am not blessed genetically either.
I skipped a few grades in school and became a social outcast. I was hazed out of one school entirely and sort of gave up on understanding people for a while. My first experience on MDMA was like a physical light switch was flicked on inside of my body. I went from only wearing black/white/gray clothes to being the one known to wear loud colors and really putting myself out there visually and socially. I ended up feeling the need to move away from my home town because I felt "too popular." I couldn't go for a run without someone stopping on the side of the street to offer me a ride to wherever. This sort of behavior continued into music festivals where I learned to manage and lead large scale groups of ~strangers in tough environments/confusing mindsets.
I thought these skills wouldn't prove valuable in the work world, but, to my elation and surprise, it was the opposite. A lot of engineers are really smart but a bit weaker on the political and social side of things. I undoubtedly nuked a few brain cells acquiring all these experiences, but hey I can still code just fine and now I love getting in there, talking to people about their feelings and communicating about how I am feeling, and do so with a belief that others are interested in hearing/seeing me.
10/10 would do it all over again.
I took nothing away from it but increased insight into how unnaturally happy one can be (on drugs) and how incredibly dull, depressing and soul crushing the average work day is.
Would I recommend others trying it? Yes, sure, it's fantastic -you gonna experience happiness on it you CAN NOT get without drugs, that's an interesting experience.
But we are *missing* out on so much learning... of ourselves, how to improve things in society, on how to heal, and be better humans to each other. Anyone who has experience with psychs knows what I'm trying to say.
I think people become more kind and caring after these kinds of experiences.
It'd be nice to see western culture adapt it's own version "shaman" culture that emphasizes deep exploration of ones self. We're getting closer to this very slowly (more people doing therapy, more interest in wellness, early glimpses of in-person psychedelic "healthcare").
BTW the article is a little US-centric; in the UK it's usually called Mandy or MD ("emdee") rather than Molly.
It was used in a therapy-like way for all those (underground) years, not strictly for dancing/clubs/house parties. People had informal couples therapy, or trauma therapy where painful memories surfaced and they could be dealt with in a safe space free of inhibitions. Only now it's more formal and the doctors are involved.
From Wikipedia:
> MDMA was first synthesized in 1912 by Merck chemist Anton Köllisch. At the time, Merck was interested in developing substances that stopped abnormal bleeding.
> Alexander Shulgin reported he synthesized MDMA in 1965 […], but did not test the psychoactivity of the compound at this time.
> Shulgin occasionally used MDMA for relaxation, […] and gave the drug to friends, researchers, and others who he thought could benefit from it.[…]. When [Leo Zeff, a psychotherapist who had been known to use psychedelic substances in his practice] tried the drug in 1977, Zeff was impressed with the effects of MDMA and came out of his semi-retirement to promote its use in therapy.
That said, it seems he first consumed it in Sept '76 and that event put it in psychotherapy circles.
[1] https://maps.org/2014/11/19/thanatos-to-eros-35-years-of-psy...
Threshold dosages had noticeable impacts in vision or mindset, but I didn't feel anything particularly introspective/exploratory. That wasn't until higher dosages, and only then I felt like it was a rollercoaster, in the sense of intense but very well psychologically attached to the rails. But then again, in those dosages I could hear the echo of my own voice with 15s delay, and just going to the toilet was an adventure full of unexpected events, so I'm not sure how a therapist can guide that either.
MDMA on the other hand softens everything from the smaller doses to the heavy ones, at least until the amphetamine edge starts to take hold.
It helped my girlfriend (now wife) move through some childhood trauma as well as eating disorders too.
Wasn’t so much into clubs - had a few parties in woods which were mind blowing (fire jugglers in fields was a highlight).
Downsides were more that I didn’t put as much time or care into side projects whilst at university- and having to deal with dodgy people to get hold of it.
Zero reasons why it is illegal (class A, no less), but alcohol is fully accepted.
A common side effect I've seen with people who use it too often is that it can cause unreasonable expectations of happiness for some people who have difficulty coping with happy moments passing.
It's as my old pappy used to say, you can't fix problems with more MDMA that wasn't created by a lack of MDMA.
Seems like a strawman. No one (except for maybe that one spunyun wook at the festival whose life and identity revolves around entheogens and entactogens) is seriously suggesting we all just have to take some Soma and sing kumbaya. These are useful tools, which need to be applied in the right context (not specifically clinical, maybe Burning Man is the right context) to be efficacious.
> It's as my old pappy used to say, you can't fix problems with more MDMA that wasn't created by a lack of MDMA.
Again, weird strawman. That's like saying you can't fix asthma with albuterol/budesonide because it wasn't created by an albuterol or budesonide deficiency. Dents in a car aren't caused by a lack of dent-pullers. Quite often the solution is not the exact inverse of the cause. Lateral problem solving is key.
MDMA does feel good, of course, but it's not escapist. It’s a deep, wholesome, fundamentally healing sort of goodness. It is unconditional, redeeming love and forgiveness — the core of Christian spirituality. It is the revelation that you really are lovable, even your darkest, hidden parts, and that you are capable of love. Debatably, there is no more profound lesson to be learned about the human condition. It really is magical.
Even so, the experience is surprisingly subtle. It doesn't particularly force positive feelings ("ecstasy" is a total misnomer, IMHO). At first you don't necessarily even notice any effect at all, maybe just a mildly better-than-average mood. But gradually it becomes clear that this subtle sense of well-being is infinitely deep: nothing you might experience can possibly disturb it. All sense of shame and self-judgement, fear of rejection, hang-ups that get in the way of connecting with people --- all dissolve immediately on contact. And from that sense of absolute safety, the capacity to love emerges naturally. The drug doesn't generate it. It just helps you get out of your own way.
I've taken MDMA a few times now just on my own at home (lacking a rave community, although I'm sure that's a fantastic experience also), where it's relatively easy to implement harm reduction measures: stay hydrated, take protective supplements, get a full night's sleep before and after, and wait multiple months between doses (doing all these, I've never experienced a ‘hangover’, just a positive afterglow). I've found the most rewarding results from trying to keep my attention grounded in bodily sensation, gently returning to the body whenever I notice I've become lost in thought. Often, difficult memories or associations will surface of their own accord, sensing that it's safe to do so, and seeing them from a loving perspective can be immensely healing.
I really hope we can eventually find our way to making this experience legally and safely available to everyone who wants it. Yes, MDMA has sharp edges; it's not as physiologically benign as the classic psychedelics, but it's not addictive and it can be used safely. Not everyone has good experiences every time, but compared to the classical psychedelics, it's much more reliably positive. It apparently has some effectiveness as a medicine for specific illnesses like PTSD, but IMHO the real condition it treats is much broader: the universal human condition of feeling more walled off than we'd like to be.
One last galaxy-brain thought: if we ever figure out a way to replicate MDMA's pro-social effects that people could safely use on a day-to-day basis, it might be the most valuable thing we ever invent. One could even see it as the metaphorical second coming of Jesus, his kingdom on earth achieved through purely secular means. How's that for a career goal? :-)
Great way of putting it!
Any drug that heals trauma makes people content and secure.
They won't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, television, mindless games, or any of the other drugs for sale.
They'll settle for what they have, stop chasing rainbows of wealth and fame.
Now they won't work in your factories 24/7, running an economy that nobody really needs.
They'll stop listening to all the fear-mongering propaganda.
They'll start talking to each other, face to face, bypassing all the apparatus of interpersonal surveillance.
They'll start helping each other, cutting dependency on your mediation.
You can't sell them crap they don't need for money they don't have.
And if they stop living in debt and fear, now you can't control them.
There's a reason we have a "War on drugs".
With mushroom I never had that.
I stopped taking MD years ago because of how I felt afterward.
Normal for any psycho-stimulant I'd say. Even alcohol. Some things are much worse for some people though, so I'd say as with all of these powerful things like mushrooms and MDMA; very occasionally for planned medicinal rather than recreational use. And with the right people, in the the right context, safe space, and some free days after to chill, reflect and detox.
Or at least a pat on the back to those who strive to do this and still keep falling short. Keep going don't give up.
You're right. I'm just kinda mixing up some Bill Hicks and some Erik Fromm in a mash. Truth is, we learned it in the 60s, that chemical enlightenment road just loops back to Dodge.
But I'm kicking up stones to see where they land, because of the cloying contradiction that remains at the heart of our lives. People want to feel good. They want good mental health. Free from anxiety and self-loathing. I think it was Frank Zappa who said good mental health is the most urgent need of our times, and that everything else would fall into place (politics, economy) if we can just stop being collectively mad. And Zappa hated drugs IIRC.
Like Fromm, I think he's right though. It starts at the bottom, not with individual happiness, but simply with individual wellness. Wellness being freedom from the enormous circus of corporate and technological misery we're all immersed in, which feeds on trauma and insecurity.
The idea, that other people's wellness could be a threat, is clearly out there. I mean, someone just equated all the horrors and human failings of modernity with a specific religious faith in a cheap potshot at my philosophy. It doesn't get much more reactionary (and bigoted) than that.
There's more than a few psychoanalysts who have said that valuing wellness of mind in society that is fuelled by madness is quite a radical position.
Do you think you’re underestimating capitalism a little bit here? You can’t imagine a world where pharmaceutical companies over-prescribe MDMA for financial gain?
I've seen people do this (with this and other drugs) and it can totally break people. I'm glad someone out there is happier than they were now, but it's insanely risky to apply untested foreign chemicals directly into your decision-making apparatus and the seat of your consciousness.
We’re an aggregate organism and some of the individuals will always be on the edge of experimentation. It’s just the nature of the thing.
Be yourself. Be free. Some of us will die, some of us will be ruined, but the rest of us will be more informed.
It's not worth the risk.
You want to self-medicate? Do it with chemicals produced inside your body. Meditate, do a triathlon, lift weights, become a health-food nut, get some sun, find some opportunity for socialization, do that sauna + cold plunge thing, whatever.
All of it is safer than swallowing/snorting/injecting some concoction that may or may not break your brain.
It's worth pointing out that the fact you can only get these drugs from the black market presently does introduce a whole separate "you don't know what you're getting" aspect to this. So even if you believe MDMA is a cure-all and you're 100% right, do you actually know that it is real? It's a bummer, but everyone does need to weigh that in their decision if they want to keep themselves safe.
https://dancesafe.org/product/mdma-testing-kit/
Purity tests are pretty subjective. People have also been testing their drugs for the presence of fentenayl but it's somewhat unlikely due to the drug profile and can throw false positives given the sensitivity of the test sample setup.
Yes, you should be careful self-medicating with chemicals. There are ways to do it safely, though, even with MDMA. You should also do other things (as you are able) that don't require chemicals, and a lot of those should come before most chemicals.
But some chemicals are really safe! E.g. for anxiety, try silexan and L-theanine as a first-line thing — they're both cheap and have no significant negative side-effects. And other chemicals are really powerful and transformative, and while they need to be considered and/or used with extreme care, they may be really good options. I'd absolutely take the risk of MDMA with proper testing, dosing, and supplementation over the risk to my body from a triathlon, for example.
And you should definitely test MDMA, or have someone test it. Both of those are pretty accessible options for people who already know how to get MDMA.
I'm genuinely curious what shaped your view on this.
Wow, silly me! If only I had’ve known that my crippling depression, anxiety, and fuck knows what else could be solved by lifting weights and getting some sun.
It’s evidently clear you aren’t, and have never, suffered from severe mental illness. With all due respect, please step off. You don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about.
I went vegan. Got jacked. Ran 20 miles a week. It didn’t help in the slightest. I was fit, healthy, and depressed as fuck. None of that had anywhere near the same effect as a single bump.
So forgive me if “safety” isn’t my paramount concern when every waking moment is a nightmare.
For the vast majority of depressed people, a simple workout habit will do the trick. This should be the first thing everyone tries.
You seem to be completely out of touch with reality and I envy the charmed life you must have led.
"Exercise is as effective as antidepressants in some cases." - https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/exercise-is-an-...
"Depression and anxiety: Exercise eases symptoms" https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in...
For serious cases that can't be helped by exercise, there is professional help, including medication.
For no cases at all are illegal drugs / self-medication the answer.
For anything that ever goes wrong with a complex, self-adjusting system, we should start with light-touch interventions that align with the natural pathways of that system. Serious interventions are for serious problems only.
"boost your mood" has almost nothing to do with depression, depression runs a lot deeper.
Have you ever been depressed? Have you ever taken psychedelics?
What part is hard to understand?
0. Do not self-medicate with illegal drugs. Bro science is best avoided when it comes to the brain.
1. Try exercise. Did it work? Good! The vast majority of sad people get happier with exercise. Did it not work? Go to step 2!
2. See a professional who might medicate you, including psychedelics.
0. Do not drive a car. You could get into an accident.
1. Try walking. Did you reach your destination? Good. Did you not? Go to step 2!
2. Hire a professional driver who might drive you.
This is what fear mongering looks like.
Not something to just brush off, even though people will be ruined and die no matter what we do.
If you do self medicate, take every sensible precaution you can, test your drugs, try to be supervised by someone who is educated and knowledgeable, and... if possible see real therapist while your neuroplasticity window is widened.
People get in trouble and other people are able to change their minds in positibe way.
Also, "self-medicate" is such a disparaging term. Humans have been medicating outside of a clinical context for approximately 99% of our existence as Homo sapiens. I'm pretty sure my cat is "self-medicating" when she can't get a hairball up on her own and so she eats some lawn grass and yakks (usually on my couch).
Yet folks often don't even realize the "MA" in "MDMA" is in fact, methamphetamine. Meth is just a stimulant, while MDMA is a psychedelic, making you trip. It's weird that the stimulant has such a bad reputation, but not the one that literally will cause you to see and experience things that do not exist, which has that big ole junkie drug meth in it even!
Not defending meth, or any drug for that matter. I'm just pointing out the weird bias we have with things. For some reason meth is an outcask, yet many "acceptable" drugs include meth and people don't even really know that. Take meth to a party and get kicked out or be looked at like a junkie. Take MDMA to a party and you're a hero. Even with drugs, we find a way to create a pecking order
That's because having similar names does not make them similar in any way. "M D M A" isn't a list of ingredients, it doesn't contain methamphetamine. They have some chemical similarity, but their effects are very different. Once you understand this, you can see that people chastising meth but liking mdma aren't being hypocrites.
Well yes, but actually no. Right answer, but the work to get there is a little off.
MDMA is MethyleneDioxy MethAmphetamine. And MethAMPhetAmine is n-methyl alpha-methyl phenethylamine (chemists love portmanteaus). So it's literally a methamphetamine core with a methylenedioxy bridge. That structural similarity gives MDMA some similarity in activity to MA, which itself works due to its similarly to dopamine and epinephrine.
Structural similarities give you a good guess but you really have to test the binding affinities on their own. There are substituted phenethylamines which have barely any activity.
MA itself has found therapeutic uses in treating ADHD and narcolepsy. Side note: this is why NO drug should ever be "Schedule I - no medical uses". How can you ever predict a lack of future medical uses? Cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, ibogaine, these have all found therapeutic uses, yet are sched I.
Do your research folks!
MDMA has meth in it along with the other stuff. When you consume it, you’re in part consuming meth. This isn’t complex. Alloys have different types of metals in them. They form a new end result, but the different metals are still there. I’m confused why folks are saying what they are
> 3,4-Methyl enedioxy methamphetamine (MDMA), commonly known as ecstasy (tablet form); and molly or mandy (crystal form),[15][16] is a potent empathogen–entactogen with stimulant and minor psychedelic properties primarily used for recreational purposes
It’s literally in the name. It’s listed as an effect of the drug (stimulant)
> MDMA is structurally similar to mescaline (a hallucinogen), methamphetamine (a stimulant), as well as endogenous monoamine neurotransmitters such as serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine
> MDMA is a substituted amphetamine structurally, and a monoamine-releasing agent mechanistically
When was the last time you heard of MDMA-fuelled crime sprees?
People on meth doing crimes are just shitty criminals. Meth is a stimulant. It doesn’t alter your reality or change you into someone else. If you’re doing shady stuff on meth, you’re just a shady person period, drugs or not. Sleep deprivation is a different beast though, and that will screw with people. Meth naturally can cause sleep deprivation. But if properly rested, doing meth is the same in terms of effects as cocaine, just stronger and lasts much longer. Stims don’t make you hallucinate or trip. Not meth, amphetamine, coke, caffeine. All varying strengths and durations for the same thing, a central nervous system stimulant, none of which have the ability to make a person do something they don’t want to do. Do we blame coffee for crimes if the criminal had a double espresso before robbing a bank? The bias is thick. Meth will not suddenly make a person go from never doing crimes to doing crime sprees from consuming it. That’s not how the drug works and it’s weird so many people have this view.
Ritalin is completely different than methamphetamine so your comparison makes zero sense.
Methamphetamine is amphetamine with a methyl group added. That’s what gets it across the blood brain barrier and why it’s so strong. The body metabolizes it to regular amphetamine after that, which is literally exactly what adderall is. And in rare cases actual methamphetamine is prescribed for adhd. I know many people who self medicate for their adhd with meth, because they can’t get a script for adderall or can’t afford to pay for it.
I’m not defending meth, or not trying to on purpose. I’m trying to call out that mdma has meth in it which is where it’s stimulating effect comes from and all I’m doing is pointing out the extreme bias and stigma one has, yet people have no issue with a different drug, comprised of the one everyone talks shit about. That logic is a thing I don’t understand. One is bad but not the other one that contains the bad one. How does that compute? That’s like someone who is allergic to fish not being allergic to fish tacos. You’re still putting fish in your body!