Comment by dhwixb | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dhwixb | Hacker News Reader

I went to buy my grandmom a phone last week. Just wanted a basic one. I am not tech person, nor do I follow whats going on in phone land.

So the sales guy lays out a bunch of the "low end" phones price wise. This one has 4 cameras, but this is better for low light conditions, and this one is better for video stabilization etc etc. I must have seen 10 phones and each one, he is talking about features grandma doesn't need. So I am standing there wondering what am I even paying for? Does no one who builds phones have grandmoms?

I start asking him that. His boss shows up and 2 other sales guys join the debate. And everyone agrees the marketers and advertisors love to Target that part of the population who is willing to shell out the most. And when all of the marketers, target the most lucrative group and forget the rest, this is where we end up.

Something is really wrong about that.

I dont understand how we get to a place where resources are allocated to build things that people dont actually need?

> I dont understand how we get to a place where resources are allocated to build things that people dont actually need?

Resources are allocated to build things that can be sold to people.

In an ideal world, that's the very things they need.

But we don't live in an ideal world, need can be manufactured, and that's precisely what the entire industry of marketing is all about.

Then there's the industrial argument to consider. You build a factory to satisfy a need. After the need is satisfied for everyone, you still have a factory that's tooled in specific ways to produce specific products... and if you can make minimal changes and re-sell the same product with a new coat of paint, you make more money. Retooling is expensive.

“Need can be manufactured” ->

We love using all of this scare language “manufactured”, “attention held hostage”, etc. etc. because what is actually happening is so innocuous we have to exaggerate to make it sound bad.

“Manufacturing need” is just making people aware of a product that they need. I could “manufacture need” for a new diabetes drug simply by making more people aware of it. I do not see what is bad about this at all.

Okay, feel free to explain why EA Sports FC 24, the thirtyfirst installment of a soccer video game in the past 30 years from EA is what people need, and how this marketing copy:

> Play before 1 Nov to become a Founder and get exclusive benefits in EA SPORTS FC™ 24

isn't "manufacturing need".

Buy an iPhone, turn on the new Assistive Access mode from iOS 17. Instantly the iPhone will be turned into a "dumb phone" with giant buttons and simple features.

https://support.apple.com/guide/assistive-access-iphone/set-...

There is not enough diversity in the supply chain to support all market segments, especially in a market as unforgiving of inefficiency as phones. You have to commit to making a million (less than one one-thousandth of the phone market) of anything in markets like that, or your costs will be higher than for products with more capabilities. 10 million is table stakes for a major product.

All the money and effort is spent on convincing people they _need_ it, rather than figuring out what people actually _do_ need.

There's even an old BBC documentary on this called Century of the Self [1] created by Adam Curtis that covers how businesses and governments were taught to make people desire things they don't need.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s [video][4 hours][996 MB]

There is a ton of money spent on anticipating demand. You all are just making statements to make statements, it seems to me.

You might want to check out the Swedish Doro phones: https://www.doro.com/en-us

> Does no one who builds phones have grandmoms ?

Grandmoms may have shaky hands and take a lot of pictures and videos of their grandchilds. Old homes are dark and need automatic high iso and powerful noise reduction. The picture engine will help auto balance the highlights. Zoom lenses help better framing without having to walk a lot, and is nice to read distant text.

All you're describing seems to be a godsend to most grandmas. Perhaps just not yours.

Jitterbug tried to have that market, but that was years ago. Looking at them now they seem insanely overpriced (almost $80 for a flipphone!)

Amazon has unlocked bar/flip phones for just over $20.

It's capitalism and greed.

> It's capitalism and greed

Actually, this is a market failure. Greed would mean building a phone for grandma. Instead we have complacent mediocrity.

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