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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

There’s not anything nearly as strong in the Bible. American Muslims are more affluent and highly educated than the average American, but also have significantly higher fertility rates (2.4 in 2017, versus 2.1 overall). Also, it’s not the “modern world.” The US fertility rate was above 3.0 the same decade we put a man on the moon.

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What about:

> Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it Genesis 1:28

In Orthodox Judaism (from the Mishna/Talmud) this takes the status of a commandment to try to have kids.

> American Muslims are more affluent and highly educated than the average American

Is this not just due to the immigrant effect, ie the only ones who can afford to immigrate (legally, at least) are those who are relatively rich (which correlates with high education levels) in their countries? It takes money to shore up a visa and buy a plane ticket, that most individuals in poorer countries would not be able to afford. American Hindus (including Indians), East Asians etc are also more affluent and highly educated than the average American, for the same reasons.

It is not necessarily "rich", but you're on the right track. During the 70s and 80s, US immigration policy basically filtered/let through mostly people who came here for college or higher education. That was the case for India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh at least, I believe. So of course the South Asian population here skews successful and educated.

I am not sure what immigration policy was like for Arabs.

I'm saying that those who can even cross the seas are relatively richer than their peers in their home country. It is not just a function of a country opening immigration, the potential immigrant must first be able to afford to do so in the first place.

Maybe, I'm not sure; the trope of people coming here with pretty much nothing and being able to establish a life is a true one that plays out time and time again. My own grandfather came here from India with very little--literally few dollars to his name, had to live with someone he knew for a bit, ate "ketchup sandwiches" regularly, etc. So I think in his case he had the resource of a network, but not much financial resources.

And my dad came to the US for college from Pakistan, also with basically nothing--his family did not have much money.

But yes, I suppose there is literally the trip across the ocean that costs money.

How exactly did they come here? Who paid for their flight or ship voyage? That is the "relatively rich" I'm talking about. My parents (and I) also came here on not much money, but I can realize that having the ability to come to the country in the first place as well as secure a job cannot be understated.

Yes, I take your meaning :)

Well, this is not universal - my great grandfather came from undivided Punjab in the 1920s as a merchant sailor and I think had about seven kids in USA.

Oh that's cool man, what's the story there? Was he among the Sikhs who settled in farming communities in California and intermarried with the Chicano population?

No, he was an Ahmedi in Kapurthala whose ancestors were sweetsellers from Bareilly. He went to New York, then Detroit and then Pittsburgh.

Ah cool--pretty unique story!

How much of his religion and culture survived down to your generation of the family tree?

My parents were married in Rabwah in the eighties if that means anything to you but I think my branch is pretty much the only unassimilated one as far as my dad’s side goes (my mom is a Pakistani immigrant and my dad was the only one in his generation besides an uncle of his to marry “back home”)

I’m really sorry to say this, but sometimes the way that Pakistanis have treated me with my background, I regret learning Urdu and Punjabi sometimes. I have many wonderful Sunni relatives and Pakistani friends but why should I put any kids I might have through abuse like “han pato Qadiani” “yahudion ka chamcha” and “wajibul qatl” (the last of which another American born Pakistani sipping soda water kindly informed me in a bar my parents were the week after the ‘Muslim ban’) Like Bulleh Shah is cool and all but mostly I end up talking about that stuff with Sikhs for some reason.

My father and brother don’t speak the language, only my mom and I. In the 80s, my mom’s favorite author was the late Ishtiaq Ahmad, up until she encountered some of his interesting conspiracy theories about her community. In children’s novels!

They may be more affluent than Indians back home, but many start at the bottom of the ladder in America. Asians are actually the highest poverty rate group in NYC. But Asian income mobility from the bottom of the income distribution is about 2.5x the income mobility of white Americans.

Also don’t forget that many East Asians came here as laborers and railroad workers in the 1800s and early 20th century, and as refugees in the 1950s-1980s. Third generation California Chinese, or Vietnamese, are also more affluent than white Americans today, for reasons that have nothing to do with immigration of affluent individuals.

Sons are indeed a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the sons of one’s youth.

Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them.

Ps. 127:3-5

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