And yet so many on this forum seem convinced that such programs are no longer taking place, despite many examples of such data only coming out years later
According to Wikipedia, it's been at least 10 months since the US got caught doing this sort of thing illegally (trainers being complicit in steroid use during training):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_drugs_in_warfare
And the US did recently ban giving amphetamines to troops (in favor of something more effective and less-well-understood):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychoactive_drugs_use...
I’m much more comfortable with service members being given modafinil than amphetamine.
Modafinil can still cause an increase in risk-taking behavior (certainly did for me), but if you absolutely need to be awake and functioning for 30-70 hours at a time it’s probably the least worst option. I’ve tried most stimulants, legal and illegal, and have had jobs that required me to be awake for 70+ hours straight in an environment not so different from military work (minus encounters with hostile forces).
I think the most right solution is “don’t put people in positions where they have to work more than 14 hours or stay awake more than 20 hours” but while that is possible for corporations to guarantee to workers, it’s not always possible for militaries to guarantee to soldiers.
"Overall, 48% say there are some circumstances under which the use of torture is acceptable in U.S. anti-terrorism efforts; about as many (49%) say there are no circumstances under which the use of torture is acceptable." (2017)
This stuff is completely mainstream. The first episode of Blue Bloods (2010) had Tom Selleck correcting his DA daughters portrayal of police torture of a subject as thoughtful "enhanced interrogation". I can turn on the TV anytime and see this sort of stuff. It's as normal as apple pie.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/01/26/americans...
Also I don't know what you mean by "so many," when the default consensus on HN is often very much pro-conspiracy.
Why wouldn't similar things cause most people to break when a team of people are working to break them, with the aid of drugs and otherwise to make the trauma seem real?
The closest working analogue I can come up with to MKULTRA's goals is cult indoctrination, and that only works so long as someone remains within the cult's sphere of influence.
That the government wanted the public to know that these heinous experiments were taking place, just to try to convince them they didn't work, when it would have been much easier and more effective to simply never reveal them to begin with if they did work.
And if what the MKULTRA documents themselves say don't matter, then all of this is just a matter of faith. What is there to even discuss if the evidence doesn't matter one way or the other? Anything could be a coverup, false flag or misdirection.
I don't necessarily agree with what you're suggesting as being simpler. It may, in fact, be simpler to reveal the experiments and discredit them by using forged documents. Regardless of what may be simpler, I don't think it's scientific to take either position, which is why I prefer an agnostic stance when reading things that essentially require taking a faith-based position.
People do break and defect to other countries all the time. It happened numerous times on both sides during the Cold War. Surely part of that process is convincing your captive or target that your side's "cause or mission" is better than the one they came from.
To what extent is that even wrong I don't know. What is a culture but a cult on a grander scale (as has sometimes been said of religion)? Not all cults need be death cults.
You can't just tell someone to do something repetitiously and they blindly follow the order. You would have to convince the person that if they didn't do something, the world would be worse off or something even more horrific would happen in a fictional alternate universe if that person was not stopped.
Though there isn't anything showing the continued use of LSD, the use of trauma to mind-break people continued until at least 2008 under the guise of "enhanced interrogation.". Black sites still seem to exist, so it's unclear if it really stopped.
That isn't a continuation of MKULTRA though, it's just torturing prisoners, and torture is notorious for not being an effective means of interrogation (which is why I'm convinced the only reason it was being pushed by the Bush administration post 9/11 was simply pandering to American bloodlust.) People will just as easily lie to make the pain stop as tell the truth.
You can look at the videos of the congressional testimony if you want more information.
Some evidence of it actually happening is perfectly reasonable.