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Comment by entuno | Hacker News Reader

The article seems to be based on the assumption that the anti-theft technology is perfect, and that if it flags then that always means that customer has not scanned an item (intentionally or otherwise).

But given how many issues you get with every other aspect of the self checkout process (items failing to scan properly, machines being broken, "unexpected item in bagging area", etc) that seems to be a very generous assumption.

And when someone has had to wait in a queue to use on of the working self checkout machines, has to go through scanning all of their own shopping (which is stores have managed to get customers to do for free so that they can make more money), has to wait for someone to come over to "assist" them when the machine complains about something, and is then (directly or indirectly) accused of trying to steal from the store because of a faulty self-checkout machine, it's not a huge surprise when they get pissed off about that.

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Even worse is when a product has a bad barcode and the employee at the self checkout tells you to go across the store and find a different one instead of just fucking doing their job.

… no, I don’t hold a grudge, why do you ask?

Early self checkout machines had a lot of fiddly things that could go wrong, but the Walmart near me easily has the most forgiving machines I've used.

Maybe stores that experience more theft keep the restrictions tighter?

Near me they adjust them from time to time, so I never know whether this week is going to be full of “you moved too quickly, call an attendant to look through your bags” or if it’ll wave you through.

Im glad that you had a good experience but forgiving for you may be an accusation of theft for another, based on some cues that could very well be wrong. I personally dislike this trend of skimping on cashiers and having people do their own checkout. If they had both it wouldn’t be a problem though…

>I personally dislike this trend of skimping on cashiers and having people do their own checkout.

I suppose we can hope the technology gets better. But given labor shortages, it's hard not to see a future with more automation and self-service.

Labor shortage? You realize it’s just the low pay that causes this impression. On such a low salary people can’t make rent even if they worked 12 hours per day. There’s a breaking point where nobody signs up for those jobs but as soon as you up the salary the shortage dissapears. I feel it’s more of a maximizing profit problem after all…

Retailers compete with each other on low single digit profit margins. If they increase their payroll, they would have to increase their prices.

Of course, knowing exactly what level of service people are willing to pay for is not an exact science, so the pendulum can swing a bit too far, but I assume the business managers are best positioned to bet on what people are willing to pay before they choose to shop somewhere else.

Not to mention that brick and mortar retail always has to worry about online retail nipping at their heels. It's hard to compete on price with an Amazon warehouse in a cheap-rent area, staffed with robots and overworked staff when you have to maintain a building in a retail area, keep it clean/nice enough that people aren't totally appalled, and then staff it with people that are able to do their job and interact with customers.

The original b&m retail game was to keep the big ticket items comparable in price, but to add high margins on the ancellary items like HDMI cables. Now, however, everyone knows the game and things like Prime shipping can get it to you fast enough to avoid impulse buying in a retail store.

> Labor shortage? You realize it’s just the low pay that causes this impression.

I don’t think it’s just that, because the unemployment rate is especially low.

Walmarts will literally have 25 checkout lanes and it will be one of the busiest shopping days of the year like December 23rd and they'll only have 3 checkout lanes open.

I'll take 25 self checkouts please.

Plus the people they hire as cashiers couldn't possibly be slower at their jobs. I'd rather have zero humans involved in my checkouts. They only waste my time.

In the other hand we have businesses like Best Buy which has a "scan and checkout from the app" feature that doesn't work and the employees know nothing about it. I tried to use it in front of them and we followed the steps on the signage and it just orders an item for pickup, which you can't take with you even if you have it in your hand, because they need someone from the back of the store to receive the order and pick it for you...

Meanwhile I can walk into an Apple Store, never make eye contact with any humans if I don't want to, walk to the shelf, scan an item and pay on the spot, and leave without any friction.

You seem to be implying that self check lines don’t get stuck and don’t need any intervention. In practice they could be slower than cashiers lines, at least that’s the case in my experience. I don’t mind having the option for both but having 3 cashier lines open and 10 crowded self check out lines is disrespectful for customers, there were ocasions where I abandoned my cart because it would add another half hour to my wait.

This absolutely does happen, but part of the issue is due to the design of the self checkouts. The good ones are a forked conveyor belt design so you send all your items down, pay, walk down to the end and bag your groceries while the next person starts their checkout and has their groceries sent down the other side. No congestion unless the issue is related to scanning the items or payment.

My grocery store's self checkout is 1 line for 8 registers, so in that case even if several registers are stuck the line doesn't stop moving. It's great not ever having to worry about picking the wrong lane.

> In the other hand we have businesses like Best Buy which has a "scan and checkout from the app" feature that doesn't work and the employees know nothing about it.

Walmart also has that, except the checkout is still at the self-serve checkout terminals, it works great, and it is only available to Walmart+ subscribers.

For checkout you hit the checkout button in the app, verify that the item count it has is correct, scan a QR code at an idle checkout terminal, and then hit the pay button and it charges your on-file card.

How do you do that at the Apple Store?

I like the way target does it. No scale, no obnoxious cameras, they just have a limited amount of self checkouts and usually have security visibly posted near them.

I have yet to witness somebody not scanning things and stealing them from there, the only “success” I’ve seen is sprinting out a fire door.

I was “detained” by CVS recently - was buying a reward for my kids, and after scanning the two items and paying by credit card, the checkout machine locked down. It took over 15 minutes for anyone to come help. When they did they immediately accused me of stealing which caused my children to think I was going to jail and freak out.

The woman put her code in and my PAID receipt spit out.

I should have left, but I had promised my kids whatever crap it was.

In my experience when a customer acts angrily they are often intentionally trying to do something wrong. In the case of innocent mistakes they are typically cordial.

Not in my experience. I pumped gas, worked at Dunkin Donuts, scooped ice cream, worked in a retail chain pharmacy, and managed a massive high performance computing facility. Sometimes the nicest people are the ones robbing you.

In the article they say "Mostly those who are trying to scam the registers are the ones who get upset the most.".

We would need some study to confirm it.

I am regularly told I have a “calming presence”, but few things get me angry faster than:

“Unexpected item in bagging area, please remove all unbagged items”

“Please place scanned item in bagging area”

“Unexpected item in bagging area, please remove all unbagged items”

“Please wait, system processing.”

“Please wait, help is on the way.”

[Screen locked, not a soul in sight]

I force myself to be cordial with the attendant since it is not their fault, but I am fully ready to Office Space that goddamn checkout kiosk.

I'm in the same boat. I rarely lose my shit. I'm the person in others lives that they come to when they need a calm, collected perspective, I calm my children easily, I enjoy letting people talk to me about their problems and I don't profer up unsolicited advice, etc.

The exception to the rule is when technology goes fucking sideways on me. Of course, in our world that means that I'm losing my shit over some misbehaving piece of technology on an ever increasing basis.

The machines at CVS and Safeway have the most annoying tone. It snips at you so quickly and frequently during routine usage.

I’m with you on the office space response. I would take sweet pleasure in providing an “unexpected item” right through its guts.

"I force myself to be cordial with the attendant since it is not their fault"

Exactly, it isn't that the situation isn't irritating it's that an honest person will initially be cordial about it. The ones that are trying to pull something go straight to overt anger because they, mistakenly, think employees are trained to give an "angry" customer what they want.

“The [shopper] doth protest too much, methinks"

> In my experience when a customer acts angrily they are often intentionally trying to do something wrong.

The article claims this too. I’ll be honest: it doesn’t match up with my experience. Self check kiosks are frustrating, even for people with the patience of a saint (which also should not be a requirement to buy things).

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