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Comment by hoseja | Hacker News Reader

I'm not sure if Banks intended them to be (considering how the book ends he might have) but The Affront are way cooler.

He was good with aliens that have blue/orange morality. My favourite is the exchange in 'The Algebraist' between the big bad villain, who is firing people at the planet in order to 'force' the Dwellers to do what he wants and the alien ambassador, who says (politely) "I do hope you have enough people ... ".

> Affront society is described as being "a never-ending, self-perpetuating holocaust of pain and misery", where the strong prey upon weaker species and individuals.

> Among the Affront's technological accomplishments is an aptitude for genetic engineering, which they developed long before spaceflight. They use this skill almost exclusively on 'prey species', which tend to be changed so as to provide greater sport (and opportunity for sadism) during the communal hunts forming a major part of the Affront culture.

> One of the few changes to their own species was the redesign of their females to make sex painful for them

> "a never-ending, self-perpetuating holocaust of pain and misery"

I'm curious: do you honestly believe the Affront are cool?

Suffering isn't actually wrong by some law of physics, it's just immoral when your morality is slave morality and your highest aspiration is safety and your most important motivator, fear.

Affronters are just more alive, more vital, actually trying, actually risking things; than the Culture HR department drones (heh), as comprehended by the ambassador, but it's still weird because the ambassador's actions are viewed from the confused uncomprehending PC perspective throughout the book.

Boss, put the Nietzsche down, not sure you're handling it right.

Hurting other sentients, just because you're sadistic and/or sociopathic, is bad.

There's nothing vital in genetically modifying women to feel only pain when having sex... unless you disagree?

The Culture diplomat in the book does. Though it's fairly clear that he's one of the Culture's broken people, who do tend to end up in Contact/SC.

They're abhorrent, obviously, but one of Banks' better examples of an alien morality. He wasn't really great at this in general; most of his other villains are some variant of evil empire/evil capitalist, or occasional ineffable great-old-one-style evil. For weird aliens (though little else), try Peter F Hamilton.

I disagree they're an example of alien morality. They're clearly sadistic, enjoying the suffering of others because they suffer and knowing that's a bad thing.

One viewpoint character clearly thinks this as well.

I think most of Banks' 'villains' were quite appealing in their way (possibly not the pro-Hell side in Surface Detail; I think that's the closest he came to pure incomprehensible evil.)

>Not sure if Banks intended them to be

Given how the culture ambassador is rewarded by being given an Affront body so he can indulge in Affront culture on even terms, and that the Affront are basically psychopathic Bertram Wooster-types, Banks knew that there was some people couldn't help but love the Affront. Something in humans loves it. Like looking at a file of red wool coated infantry (btw, did you get that the Affront is coded for the British empire?) and thinking "yup, really cool".

Not Prussians, what with the dueling ~scars~ amputations?

Haven't read past Phlebas yet, but as a big Wodehouse fan, can you say more about this?

Well, they're not exactly the focus of the book, I think the Affront have just three or four meaty scenes, but they maim, torture and sexually assault whomever they can, and regard it all as a bit of jolly good fun for all involved.

Well he did also write The Wasp Factory.

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