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Comment by Tallain | Hacker News Reader

Do you have a few favorites in this genre?

Not OP, but I do in the form of the original Deus Ex (not to be confused with it's sequels, which are pale imitations with the veneer of being in the same universe).

This particular clip is what convinced me to get into the game (potential spoiler) [0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc

A gentle disagreement here, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, the latest one though a few years old dramatically harkens back in terms of level design.

Almost all the areas have Nakatomi spaces but it is entirely possible to never use them. Likewise one can use them almost exclusively.

Unlike Human Rebolution where these spaces are occasional treats sprinkled out by the devs, they are more properly "worked in" in Mankind Divided.

You're right, actually. When I first played through MD I did it very linearly, only later did I realize that it was far more open than I originally expected (Because Human Revolution was pretty limited in comparison).

My point for it being a shallow imitation should be reserved only for the plot and themes of the original game, which are far more subversive and interesting than the ones in MD or HR. But I do agree, gameplay wise Mankind Divided is very well done and does fit the Nakatomi Space paradigm.

and don't forget to make original Deus Ex even better with GMDX[0]

[0]: https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx

I wouldn't play with something like that for a first playthrough though. Just play vanilla for a first time around. Deus Ex lends itself well to replayability so I'd get it modded at that point.

The article very much reminded me of Rainbow Six Siege whose defining feature is probably the destructible environment. You can shoot or blow a path through walls floors and ceilings to reach the hostages / bad guys you need to get to. It very much changes the dynamics during play because almost nowhere is safe. To balance things, defenders have the ability to erect a limited number of metal barriers but the end result is that every game feels different and creativity is very much rewarded.

The new Hitman games are the best recent example in that category, IMO. Sadly the final goal still ends up being killing people.

There are few games that fall truly in that genre, which is a shame as (to me at least) it’s the video game genre that is most interesting from an “interactive medium” pov.

Arkane games (Dishonored, Deathloop) have some segments that get close, but at their core the games still have a few privileged paths (and are about killing people).

One fun indie game that uses a voxel engine effectively for open ended gameplay is Teardown (and it’s not about killing people!). The maps are quite small though. It’ll be exciting in a decade or so when we can run such engines at much higher dimensions.

There aren't a lot of them these days. Hitman probably the only one still going strong.

I would recommend Streets of Rogue from the indie sphere. It doesn't have vents you can crawl through but you can poison the ventilation system, bribe the police, hack security robots, hire people as bodyguard or to cause a ruckus. Surprisng amount of options for a top down roguelike.

I've just vouched your comment. Not sure why it was removed, because you're right, games that are primarily immersive sims aren't being made as much by AAA studios now. Some mechanics are integrated into open world games to varying degrees (you could argue that BotW/TotK take so much inspiration from them that they might count, but to many people a replayable mission-based format is an essential part that is missing in them). There are some indies in this space but they're rare since the concept is difficult to develop around in the first place, given how you have to account for so many different edge cases and routes that the player can take.

Immersive sims have always been something of a niche genre, because they tend to have a negative difficulty curve: the player is very weak and lacks powers at the start, but becomes more resilient and more capable as the game goes on, often at a much sharper curve the game's difficulty. The result is that new players tend to be turned off and give up relatively quickly.

a new one coming up is Gloomwood, heavily inspired by the Thief franchise

Ones I've played and loved:

Deus Ex, Thief 1+2, Dishonored 1/2/Death of the Outsider, Prey 2017, Bioshock

Ones I've heard great things about:

System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis, Stalker

The Thief series is typically pretty open ended in how you complete things. Especially the third one iirc.

The least old one is 9 years old though, and thief 3 is like 20 years old.

Strange to hear you say that about Thief 3 or Thief 2014.

Most people hate those with a passion, and only recommend Thief 1 + 2.

I loved Thief and Thief 3.

Never played 2 but always hear it is amazing.

Huh I always felt 2+3 were good, 1 was just a weird hack&slash, and honestly never played 4 lol

Thief 1 is not a hack+slash. You shouldn't be engaging in combat at all, you should be avoiding it.

Right but you could, and it didn't really penalize you for it compared to later games, whereas my recollection of 3 is that you get near instagibbed by everything, so it forced a stealth gameplay loop

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