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Comment by its_so_on | Hacker News Reader

imagine if Dell had a tool that let you put in a macbook model number, and it displayed its offering that is as close as it can get with the components it uses (maybe add to the thought experiment that this was back when dell was all built-to-order).

would this be a legal a problem? Doubt it. What do you guys think?

edit: as for what it's like for 'apple' in the analogy - remember that the 'dell' offer in the actual current story this is an analogy for is then delivered instantly and absolutely free and gratis! :)

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I don't think your analogy really holds. The publishers don't seem to be going after that component of the business plan (that they can tailor a textbook covering the same material), but rather that literary and pedagogical devices are systematically being 'reused'. A closer analogy in the context of computers would actually be the hardware and software design. It is not the content itself, but rather how the content is being delivered, in a non-technical sense that they are going after here.

It's still kind of crud though, from both sides. Being forced to this type of litigation doesn't speak well for the publishers' futures, but at the same time, being open to this type of accusation at all speaks poorly on the startup's ability to actually create useful product.

but they're saying 'this is paragraph by paragraph equivalent' and the analogy is 'but the cpu is from the same component manufacturer and the closest we have, the graphics card ditto, the cdrom ditto,' etc etc, with the form factor as close as 'dell' (in the analogy) can get it. same screen size and resolution, different manufacturer 'dell' uses. I think component-by-component matching is quite an analogy to what the publisher claims is going on here. The final difference (the 'design' of the software and the form factor) might be one the buyer doesn't care about enough to justify the price difference. The final 'design' in this case is having one author cohesively write the textbook (style and tone). In this case the students might not care enough to justify the price difference, and will take 'components' matched chapter by chapter from all over the web...

the 'dell' analogy is even worse if you mean 'reuse' as it's literally the same or equivalent component (the very same or a functionally equivalent a 15 inch screen at such and such resolution). I mean, in the analogy they're by the same suppliers!

the point is that you are saying 'put in the name of the textbook" and we'll try to get as close as possible chapter-by-chapter (component by compoinent) obviously without quite hitting the actual original autho's style? Isn't this what's being claimed?

Can you copyright the voicing and structure of a document? Even if the replacing source material was not constructed with that intent? At what point does have a structural similarity to a book turn into a copyright violation?

Copyright is for the work itself. The physical manifestation of those words in that order. It isn't a lock on the ideas expressed with those words. Reproducing another writers outline is not a violation of copyright.

Is Dell assembling them in the same way as the macbook in a case that was a clone of the macbook ... aka a counterfeit macbook? That's what Boundless sound like they're doing.

But Dell isn't claiming the computer is a macbook. Boundless is not claiming that their textbooks are the same as book <x>. Rather they say that they are sufficient substitutes. That seems pretty fair to me. If I can't afford an iPhone, I can certainly go get a samsung look-alike (notwithstanding the design battle with samsung and apple before...).

TFA is about what the textbook companies are claiming... and they are claiming "photographic paraphrasing".

For the Dell analogy to be correct they'd have to be making these:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/fake-airbook-is-the-best-mac...

http://www.macstories.net/mac/hey-my-fake-macbook-pro-runs-o...

I can imagine Apple would commit some legal resources to research the validity of a complaint, though it seems like a reasonable feature to me.

It might go a lot like this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20113365-17/apple-wins-key...

I think it would result in a free advertising win for Apple, actually.

right, some free advertising. Now what if the tool let you get something shipped to you free, doesn't cost a penny, that's as near to the macbook as the tool can get it.

(as per the present example).

the free advertising doesn't sound so good now does it? I mean, in this gratis example, are you going to send enough more people to paying $1200+ by having this tool acknowledge that macs are a great gold standard, than the macs will lose to their free competition?

(To get closer to numbers /a bit more formal analysis: Macs, like textbooks, are EXPENSIVE. And it's hardly an inelastic demand curve, like it would be if you could try to find the cheapest and best witch-doctor, non-FDA approved herbal "remedy" that matches a real drug that actually cures the illness but is patented. Yeah, in this case everyone who's right in the head and has enough money will go use the real drug. But as for a $1200 computer vs 'dell' generic 'free'... as for a $120 textbook vs 'open document sources' generic 'free'...)

because that would be the analogy. free advertising for the $120+ textbook (actually how is it really advertising if the user has to put it in themselves, as per the story and per my 'enter a model number' example) - while offering a gratis alternative as close as the tool can get it.

legally I bet it's fine, but great advertising proposition for the entity under fire does not seem to me a solid argument in the present case...

Neither Dell nor Apple gives away their products for free. Nor will they at any time in the future, so the textbook for laptop metaphor is invalid in this case.

What I alluded to is that should Dell engage in a product comparison campaign with Apple, their approach would probably do more to highlight their shortcomings rather than convince a potential buyer that they should choose price and configuration over experience.

Those two companies may be in the same industry but they are selling very different products to different demographics. It would be like Chevrolet comparing their free tote bag for every purchase with Porsche's optional carfit luggage kit.

what? Why would price have ANY effect on the analogy? If anything, European courts have looked down on Google offering a service for free that is even in the same SPACE as a paid service ("dumping"), and an argument could be made that the tool is undermining the publishers to put them out of the business and then offer its own for-pay alternative. Other than that, the fact that it is free has zero bearing on anything. I intended the analogy to make us think about how the law applies, not to make us think about free computers.

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