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Comment by IshKebab | Hacker News Reader

I had RSI and experimented with Dvorak, vertical keyboards, even vertical mice (terrible idea).

None of them helped. Surprisingly the thing that helped was getting a really good chair (I recommend a second hand HM Mira; don't get anything that sells itself as "ergonomic"), and a really deep desk so you can properly rest your forearms on the desk.

With that my RSI went away completely, even with a totally plain qwerty keyboard.

Dvorak was definitely nicer than QWERTY but when you add up...

1. You know qwerty. You'll probably never be as fast with Dvorak.

2. Ever want to type on any other keyboard in the world again? Yeah good luck. You will underestimate how often you type on coworkers' keyboards.

3. Ever use keyboard shortcuts? Well now they're awful.

... it definitely isn't worth it.

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I learned Dvorak 30 years ago due to RSI, and it's a pain for reasons 2 and 3. Maybe 10 years ago I just dropped it and went back to Qwerty. Got RSI, switched back to Dvorak, fixed it.

But speed is just a matter of experience. I don't know if I'm faster on Dvorak, but a speed that is really hammering keys in Qwerty feels comparatively effortless in Dvorak.

Similar here: Dvorak fixed my RSI.

I think I can be faster on Dvorak because I type less quickly and with more comfort to reach the same level.

Even without RSI, overwhelmingly the anecdotes about Dvorak are that it feels more comfortable.

In terms of speed: I learned Dvorak, then went back to QWERTY. I returned to Dvorak a few years ago, and can now be faster with Dvorak than I was with QWERTY.

> Ever want to type on any other keyboard in the world again?

I'd say this points more to "it's necessary to retain QWERTY".

Slightly bigger problem is if others want to type on your keyboard; you need to be able to switch it to QWERTY easily.

> Ever use keyboard shortcuts?

Yeah, this one does count against Dvorak.

Similarly, with mouse & keyboard stuff like Blender or CAD, you'll need to actually recall the letters are; which is different than when you've got two hands on the keyboard.

The main other things I'd say which count against Dvorak is that it will take some time to learn; and probably your motor-memory will be awful while learning it (so typing on any keyboard will be slow and error prone).

Still, I'm glad with the increase in comfort I got from learning Dvorak. (And these days I'm faster with Dvorak than I was with my undisciplined QWERTY).

About keyboard shortcuts, with vim and ctrl-c/v I decided to use the characters of the layout, otherwise I thought it would be to confusing. But X, C and V are so comfortably next to each other that I sometimes make an exception.

> Ever want to type on any other keyboard in the world again? Yeah good luck. You will underestimate how often you type on coworkers' keyboards.

I can type still type on a regular keyboard with qwerty perfectly well.

> Ever use keyboard shortcuts? Well now they're awful.

Nah, you just have to keep that in consideration when designing the layout. Colemak keeps the most important ones in the same place, and the layout in OP has a dedicated shortcut layer for the ones not in a comfortable spot.

I tried vertical mouse, and the biggest issue with it is that you need to rotate your wrist each time you reach for the mouse. Just using a keyboard without numpad solved the issue. Back in the days when I used a keyboard with numpad, I positioned my mouse below the keyboard (near the Space key) and it was a big improvement in terms of hand travel distance.

I got a HM Sayl. It is comfortable but it makes a racket of squeaks, creaks, and wailing noises every time I move. So much so that I try not to move at all during meetings these days. My previous $80 Staples chair didn't have this problem.

Are the other HM chairs any better?

Never tried that chair but yeah the Mira's don't make any noise. (There's a Mira 1 and 2 but they're essentially identical.)

I've used quite a few Sayl chairs at my uni, I've never noticed them making any squeaks. Though my (2nd hand) Ikea marcus is pretty noisy. I think if you open up the chair and re-oil it it should be good.

3) you can remap to use the same physical keys for shortcut, and in the process make them more comfortable/logical to you , so this isn't a big issue

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