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Comment by city41 | Hacker News Reader

I still marvel that my pretty basic Kia Niro EV provides the quiet, smoothness and smooth power delivery that Rolls Royce has been trying to get out of their v12s for decades. And it gets it without even trying, it's just how electric motors are.

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> pretty basic Kia Niro EV

At €45k you're far from "basic" imho. Not so long ago you were into the premium car category at that price in Europe. In 2010 you could buy a new bmw 335i for that price... or in 2012 two new basic (for real this time) peugeot 308

That was 13 years ago. A basic inflation calculator says $100 in 2010 would be $142 today.

Not sure about Europe but after the US tax credit on EVs our Niro cost about the same as say an Accord.

And how much have wages grown in the meantime ? About ~15% in Europe

This is starting to feel like another topic altogether. My original point is the Niro is not a luxury vehicle. It's really just a very average/typical vehicle they slapped an electric motor into. And roughly costing us about the same as a Honda Accord after the tax credit supports that. For as long as I can remember, the Accord was considered a "typical family car", at least in the US. Us being in late stage capitalism and suffering from massive inflation and income inequality is not really relevant to my point.

It’s a very basic car. It’s expensive due to production scale reasons, not because it’s any sort of fancy vehicle.

Yep, I have a Volvo PHEV and in EV mode it is smoother, quieter and just more luxurious experience than a Range Rover V8 that I used to have(and that was like pinnacle of luxury at the time).

It's a new level.

Kia, Hyundai (same company I think) are well situated. As are BMW, Mercedes, and obviously Tesla.

But... Toyota? Nowhere to be seen, has some also-ran EVs in production. The old American carmakers - absent. VW - been talking about EVs for years but ... nothing.

The biggest carmakers in the world have a vested interest in keeping EVs off the market for as long as possible.

> The old American carmakers - absent.

Ford F-150 electric Lightning truck has production issues, but it exists. Same with the Cadillac LYRIQ. VW's ID.4 is also all-electric.

Tesla and the gigafactory has a head start on the critical component - batteries - but the rest of the industry has started to wake up.

> VW - been talking about EVs for years but ... nothing.

Well I think they're the third EV manufacturer in the world for 2023. BYD is first (I guess mostly in China), Tesla second and Stellantis (Peugeot, Fiat and some American brands I think) fourth.

Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes (didn't even know they made EVs but apparently they do) Toyota and the other brands I'm reading about in these comments are all much further down the charts, so I'm not sure what to think.

Maybe the American market is so different that most commenters here have a warped view of the actual EV market in the rest of the world

BMW and Mercedes don't actually manufacture a lot of cars compared to other manufacturers. They go for margin rather than volume...

Total deliveries in 2022 (incomplete obviously, there are many other manufacturers): Toyota (10,483,024, including Daihatsu), Volkswagen Group (8,262,776), Stellantis (4,488,269), Hyundai (3,944,579), BMW (2,399,630), Mercedes (2,043,900), Tesla (1,313,851).

> VW - been talking about EVs for years but ... nothing.

What do you mean?? There are loads of ID.3 and .4 about here.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/electric...

Actual deliveries of BEVs in 2022: Volkswagen Group (572,110) followed by BMW (215,755) followed by Mercedes (117,800). So VW actually shipped more BEVs than BMW and Mercedes combined...

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