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Comment by jmcphers | Hacker News Reader

Yesterday I had lunch at a Shake Shack. Humans don't take orders there any more; you place your order at a self-serve touchscreen kiosk. As I finished placing my order, I was prompted to leave a tip; 10% was the default and you had to press a button to change it.

Who am I tipping, exactly? The kiosk? Myself? No one had even made eye contact with me up to this point. I have ordered fast food from a computer. When I have eaten it, I'm expected to bus my own table.

And yet, I felt bad for removing the tip before placing my order, and kind of slunk away from the kiosk hoping the kitchen in the back doesn't know whether or not I tipped, so they can't spit on my burger.

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Don't worry, you will stop feeling bad about it after it happens a few more times. You haven't done anything wrong.

but the fear of them spitting in the food will always still be there

Choose to go somewhere else that doesn’t do that to you; if you vote with your feet, they will get the message

It’s difficult to find a place that doesn’t do that these days.

The answer is to not go anywhere. Eat at home.

The guys likely to spit in the food are the same people who don't care the slightest bit about the business and are probably going to end up fired after a couple of months for not showing up getting in a fight with a coworker or manager. And this isn't me trying to bad mouth service industry folks, it's just that people who are working in fast food are usually are not in that situation because they're making life decisions that lead to financial success (again generally not specifically). The point being the person spitting in your food isn't going to care if you come back.

This is what I've done. There are a few restaurants that I've come across that have mandatory tipping, and I'll never go back. I don't think it's insensitive to believe that it is not the customers responsibility to pay for the employees.

Raise the prices, get rid of tipping, it will make everyone happier.

This is the way. I recently got an oil change, and at the end I was prompted to tip with the default 20%. I changed it to zero - the person doing the work is certainly being paid market rates and well above minimum wage (even now, why do I feel the need to explain myself?!) and I’ll never go back to this chain.

It's insane that we live in fear of retaliation for not giving a vendor more money while getting nothing in return.

s/insane/realistic

don't ever fuck with the people who prepare your food

Jesus, fuck this—it's all too complicated. I'll just cook at home, thanks. Costs less, way healthier, tastes better and guaranteed to contain no bodily fluids. The enshittification of the food service industry is complete.

1. Not tipping in the aforementioned scenario is so far away from qualifying as "fucking with" anyone

2. Not only would spitting in food get you fired but it's also a crime. Do you really think it's common for people to be this reckless with their livelihood?

It's a restaurant. If high flying executives with great careers can commit crimes to make a extra buck, the person flipping your burger isn't going to be much more pragmatic.

I worked in food service, mostly FOH as a bartender/server, and at no point was I angry enough at a customer to spit in their food, pee in their drink, etc. It just wasn't worth the risk or effort.

The most we would do is serve you slower if you're being a jerk.

I can't speak for every food service worker, but most FOH are too busy/indifferent to really care.

It took me a few months to get over not tipping but my new rule is unless it's a sit down and food is brought, no tip.

That's my rule as well. Additionally they have to be able to accept the tip via card.

Yep but include baristas

No, if I take food from a counter myself and clean my own table when I leave, there is NO tip for you.

This is beyond madness.

I've gone back to that strategy as well, though I also give bartenders an extra dollar or two.

You think if you tipped that it would go to the kitchen workers anyway? If so, you have a lot more faith than I do.

If I walk up to the counter to order and walk up to pick up my order, the maximum tip is the coins I don’t wish to carry away.

That's especially ridiculous because Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer made a big stink about eliminating tipping from his numerous restaurants back in 2015!

The tip wouldn't have gone to the food staff prepping your burger so doubt they'd even know

The BOH wouldn't know or carw, but the server usually handles the food and drink before it gets to the table.

In theory tips are shared with back-of-the-house staff (which probably also depresses their salaries). So if you usually tip 10%, tipping 5% sounds fair!

(thankfully I'm in Europe and don't have to deal with this bullshit)

I had the lady at PetChain ask me if I wanted to donate to starving dogs (as I hold a bag of food, to feed MY starving dog). I ignored her, anyway, then i go to pay and theres another question on some digital pad asking if I want to donate to X shelter. I just ignored it and played dumb. It was enjoyable to watch her say 'its asking you a questsion' and me just tapping my card repetitively like a boomer.

I refuse to engage in your bullshit!

You sound delightful.

> Who am I tipping, exactly?

The staff who make pretty crap money to do a pretty thankless job who opened the restaurant, kept it clean + stocked, kept the bathrooms cleaned, make the order, serve the order, help you if something is wrong, help keep condiments/drink machines working, etc.

I agree with this logic we should always tip everybody we interact with $1 and that isn't the standard. It's a weird thing. Tipping in the food service industry is just "accepted" the same way a 6% real estate facilitation commission is.

I don't agree with this way of looking at things. It isn't a thankless job; they're getting paid. It's a different argument if they're not getting paid enough, but it seems backwards to pass on the responsibility of properly compensating them to the customer.

The customer should pay for the product. The employees should be paid by the employer. This whole tipping nonsense has been exacerbated by the move to POS systems nationwide. Tipping should be seen as a reward for doing something excellent or extraordinary.

> It isn't a thankless job

What experience do you have working this kind of job / interfacing with people who work these kinds of jobs?

More often than not in my experience, they are extremely miserable/unhappy (probably as a result of making less than $40k/yr). They don't have the skillsets/education/opportunities to get ahead. Customers constantly yell at them.

Telling them "be happy for what you have/how much you make" is sort of kind of like... not well received?

> It's a different argument if they're not getting paid enough

There's no easy solution. Most businesses run on like a 10-30% net margin if not lower. Payroll is a fixed portion of that.

We already have an "inflation" problem and giving everybody $5/hr raises isn't going to fix anything.

If the business can't make the math work, then it should shut down.

Otherwise raise the prices and find a point at which it can run.

The customer is paying the same regardless so why not just build it into the pricing?

I’ve worked 5+ minimum wage jobs and worked once at a restaurant.

I’m not saying anyone should be happy; you should reread my message. It isn’t a thankless job because *you’re getting paid*.

The 6% realtor fee may become a thing of the past

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/homes/nar-verdict-real-estate...

I don’t want to tip. Ever. Charge me more money and pay your damn employees. Don’t make employee compensation your customer’s problem. Tipping is rarely ever enjoyable for the customer, so why put that on them?? I know why… greed. You can get away with paying them less because “tips”.

or maybe just the owner

> The staff who make pretty crap money to do a pretty thankless job

How’s that my problem, exactly?

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