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Comment by troupe | Hacker News Reader

Well it makes sense to NOT build a factory where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars. If the unions see this as a good thing then it is a win for everyone. Tesla build factories where people will work on their cars and Swedish unions don't have to turn down work that is available in their country.

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Sweden has a long history of high quality manufacturing, spawning world renowned companies like Volvo, Astra, SAAB, ABB(ASEA), Bahco, Nobel, etc, etc, etc.

If Tesla doesn’t want to put up an assembly line in Sweden because their management is too stupid and greedy to see the advantage of a unionized workforce, it’s their loss.

Unionised workforces are almost never a good thing from a productivity and flexibility perspective.

You’ll never see modern manufacturing companies willingly become a union shop, it’s not in their best interest.

The rare times it does happen, it’s always against the wishes of management.

That’s strange, more or less all countries that are wealthy have a unionized workforce.

And by wealthy countries, I don’t mean countries where a select few have all the money and power and the working man is struggling.

I would absolutely prefer to live in a country where my fellow man work for a “non-productive” factory in Sweden, or any other advanced European economy, than in the US.

And quite frankly, if management wants to exploit their workers, they can go fuck themselves.

Actually most developed countries only have very small unionised workforces. The OECD average is 9% (rising to 17% if you include public sector).

Moreover, union membership is rapidly falling. Every OECD country except Spain and Belgium are losing union members faster than they are being added.

Unions don’t really make sense for employers, and typically don’t make sense for high skilled workers either.

While I’m sure that many low skilled workers prefer them, it’s the companies and higher skilled workers who decide where businesses operate.

We are specifically talking manufacturing. I am not surprised less and less people are members of a union. Unions don't always make sense.

Price is part of the quality of a product or else we’d all be buying the Vision Pro and the iPhone SE would just be confusing.

Because management is obviously always right... Also, all German car manufavturers are unionized, every single one of them. Just to pick one example were it works out rather well with an unionized and collectively bargained workforce.

You could have used far fewer words to tell us you know nothing about unions other than the FUD anti-union people have spread.

Sweden's car production seems to have dropped from 300k/year in the 1970s to less than 200k/year, so it doesn't look great. Meanwhile Mexico grew their production by 10X in the same time frame [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Sweden#... [2] ECONOMICS:MXCAP on trading view

Correct, Sweden has moved forward and is no longer just a manufacturing economy.

My question to you. Would you rather drive a Swedish made car or one from Mexico?

The car I bought is from Mexico so I guess that answers the question.

I don't think it answers the question - I bought a Windows laptop because it's more affordable, but I'd rather be driving a Mac, hardware-wise. Does the same concept not apply to you and your car, or others who have chosen a Mexican made car over a Swedish one?

> where the workers are prohibited from painting your cars

It is not like this is a fact of life which is outside of tesla's control. All they need to do is agree on a collective agreement and their troubles go away.

Their refusal to even negotiate is the source of their problem. "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden....

Manufacturers are leaving Sweden. They produce fewer cars now than they did 50 years ago.

The range of negotiated outcomes that would be attractive to manufacturers would all involve pay cuts.

There’s no point engaging in negotiations unless the union can first accept that.

It's not like it is a fact of life that is outside of the unions control either. If they wanted the work, they could let people work on Tesla vehicles. If they don't need the work, then there isn't any reason to do so.

> "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do" When in Sweden....

But you can also choose where you want to go and that sounds like what Tesla is doing. They aren't forcing Swedish unions to do anything that Swedish unions don't want to do. And Swedish unions aren't making Telsa do something they don't want to do. Sounds like a win win for everyone.

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