The Svalbard fibre optic cable connection (2022)

Svalbard has a very weird legal status. It has visa-free right to live there and work there. Russia maintains a population there at a loss-making coal mine, arguably to keep a persistent claim of having a national interest in it. As well as the location being ideal for polar satellite comms, with the opening of trade routes past Svalbard (with the melting of the Arctic) suddenly a lot of nations care a lot more and Norway and NATO allies have picked up the pace on exercises in the region. I have reason to believe that "what do we do if Russia decides it wants to take Svalbard" is regularly considered in military planning. The Svalbard treaty is a weird leftover from a different time; a time when Svalbard was much less valuable.

Svalbard has a surprisingly large Thai population. I don't know about today, but at one point about ten percent of the population were Thai citizens.

> ideal for polar satellite comms

Indeed, Svalbard can be a handy keyword if you want to find articles on ionospheric disturbances to satellite comms, like GPS.

> surprisingly large Thai population

Hmmm... that sounds suspiciously like fisheries-related slavery/indentured servitude. See also: Dutch Harbor.

I've been to Dutch Harbor but in the summer: sadly only three restaurants none of them Thai. But some good sushi and decent pizza. And apparently they now have a fiber connection to the rest of the world.

https://journal-njmr.org/articles/10.33134/njmr.488 says job opportunities for migrants from Thailand and the Philippines are "limited to the spheres of cleaning, shop assistance, construction works, catering (hotels, restaurants and cafés), massage studios or the Thai store", so no fishing. But "as Norwegian legislation regulating working conditions is only partially valid in Svalbard, people without permanent full-time jobs often accept conditions that are immoral".

> Hmmm... that sounds suspiciously like fisheries-related slavery/indentured servitude. See also: Dutch Harbor.

Well, no. There's two parts to this.

1. Svalbard is rather nice. While years there doesn't count towards Norwegian citizenship, the wages are rather high and Norwegian-like. Building up a good personal economy is certainly appealing to a lot of people. 2. There's boatloads of Norwegians married to Thai women.

However, to get to Svalbard in the first place, you need to show that you can sustain yourself without being a burden on the local society. There's no health care to speak of there (except a regular doctor). There's no social security there. You need to be able to fend for yourself and build your own thing, or have a work contract.

Also the taxes are really low, especially compared to Norway. Low income tax, cheap petrol, cheap alcohol.

> cheap alcohol

Subject to a rationing card, though!

>to live there and work there.

The problem is the housing as most of them are provided by employers. It's really hard to get a rent just by your own https://www.sysselmesteren.no/en/entry-and-residence/

> I have reason to believe that "what do we do if Russia decides it wants to take Svalbard" is regularly considered in military planning.

A series called "Occupied" (trailer below) imagines Russia invading Norway to control its oil fields. It's excellent, with a superb cast.

https://youtu.be/yfqRRHaFyJg?si=fbamSuZM6sM6WuE_

Haven't watched the show, but it sounds interesting. How do the writers rationalize the Russian invasion of a NATO country without kicking off WWIII?

Easy. In the series, Norway decides to invest in Thorium nuclear power to get out of oil. We basically decided "we'll be environmentally friendly". Suddenly powered by nuclear in addition to hydro - and having a hefty petroleum fund - we get by without exporting oil.

The EU, and NATO, kinda depends on oil, and kinda asks Russia to invade. ;)

Excellent summary.

I've wondered about that, too. Probably came at the wrong time, with the Crimean thing, and so on. IIRC Russia even protested officially, via diplomatic channels, whatnot, while the series aired.

But yeah, it's an OK show. Not mindblowing, but OK to watch.

You are a strict grader! If you have a minute, suggest shows/movies you consider "mindblowing." Thanks!

I see nothing strict in here. It is an ok show, I watched it. "Mindblowing" would be something like "breaking bad" but this is of course to my taste. Others are different.

By "strict" I meant nothing negative; rather, I meant that I thought "Occupied" was mindblowing, so I naturally would like suggestions from someone who thinks it is "ok."

The recommendations of others oftimes guide our choices of what to watch. "Breaking Bad" = "Mindblowing?" OK. How about a few more of that caliber. Thanks!

Not GP but I also find it somewhat hard to like a TV show, so hopefully that qualifies me :)

The last one that blew my mind was "Severance", and before that "Devs". Both have a very different mood/aesthetic than Breaking Bad, though.

If you liked "Devs" a lot, I believe you will like "Halt and Catch Fire."

Hrrm yaaa, that was acceptable.

I'm not IMDB.

Seriously, it's a matter of taste, which things/themes are interesting to you, and how they have been put into the product which 'occupies' your screen ;->

While Okkupert's technical production values were excellent, the pilot and first few parts were interesting because of the novelty of the EU sending the Russians to occupy arrogant Norway to ensure continuing streams of oil and gas, the rest wasn't IMO. Some some police procedural, some secret agent, polit crime thrill thing with some personal/family trouble under said occupation at length. Yawn.

What's blowing my mind? Not much TBH. I'm rather bored and jaded by most of it.

Fair enough.

Edit: Movies, unsorted, from the top of my mind:

WESTWORLD!

This all began about 2006 with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_... after having abstained from possessing a TV, or watching that by other means (with some exceptions for news and documentaries) since 1996, and mostly no cinema either.

That stuff rehooked me in a binge-watching session. Shit happens :-)

Do yoo vanna häff fries wiff thät?

/nerdsnipe off

This is GOLD. Thank you!

Actually I've watched much more, be it movies, or TV-Series. It's just that the ones I've listed above left a more lasting impression on me, than some blockbusters I didn't mention, or that I'd consider them 'rewatchable' (Which I rarely (want to) do anyways).

Let's take Breaking Bad for instance, I did binge-watch that (while being stoned) and remember it as cringe-worthy. Nope, won't watch again. Then there was Continuum, which I know I've watched in full(sober, this time) and I can't even remember anything. Had to be too generic for me, I think?

What else, the Sarah Connor Chronicles. Mostly boring, except the scene where some hispanic Chica outstared her, and she learned that from her. That was funny for me :-)

Oh, one more, because I sometimes felt like that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_Down

Edit: Err... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorm_(1983_film) How could I forget that?

I'll bite.

Two masterpieces with Alec Guinness - Obe Wan Kenobi.

Tinker tailor soldier spy. Smileys people.

Forensic accountancy with violence W/ Roy Marsden

The Sandbaggers

Based on your suggestion of the two spy thrillers, both of which I loved, I'm gonna watch "The Sandbaggers," which I'd never heard of till you mentioned it.

One more reason HN rules.

What's the US's take on it? We don't import much oil from Norway, and we're not historically big supporters of Russian aggression.

Let me guess -- Russia successfully lays the groundwork by co-opting one of the two major US political parties?

Sounds like it was that Norway stopped exporting oil which western nations depended on and then asked Russia to invade Norway to get it going again.

Point being, the US wouldn't care about the oil. We don't import much if any oil from Norway.

Yes, the loss of Norwegian exports would have had the effect of raising oil prices globally. But not by enough to make the US stand by while Russia starts mowing down NATO countries. That would be considered a Big Deal over here, even in light of pro-Russian GOP sentiment.

It depicts a fictionalized story. The premise doesn't need to be 100% fleshed out in terms of geopolitical realities.

Yeah, but there's such a thing as suspension of disbelief.

The idea that we'd chill out while Russia invades Norway... I mean, you could come up with a way to make that sound plausible, but it would almost have to be the central theme of the whole show.

I recall that it’s depicted as a kind of bloodless coup / occupation.

This is so funny. Rosatom operates at least 35 nuclear reactors only in Russia, whilst Norway operates zero production reactors of any kind.

Yeah. Norway has insane hydroelectric resources thanks to the glaciers (the fjords), so the irony is that they don't even use oil to power the country.

>> they don't even use oil to power the country

Well, maybe not in terms of energy, but it definitely "powers" the country in the sense that's where the money comes from.

And again, tell that to Russians, who operate the third in the world by energy production dam, Sayano-Shushenskaya.

Part of the premise is that Norway shuts off oil production. Everyone looks the other way when Russia invades because they'll keep suppyling oil.

Yup, the EU is aware and complicit.

Any idea how to watch that as an American?

It was on Netflix at one point...that's where I saw it at least. Great show, highly recommend.

Piracy.

Science!

https://tv.apple.com/us/show/occupied/umc.cmc.2xu539nv98qsk4...

It's available on Netflix with English subtitles.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80092654

Justwatch.com is great for checking if a movie or show is available on any of your streaming services (also handy for keeping a cross-service watchlist that will notify you when something becomes available). No relation, just a happy user.

In this case: https://www.justwatch.com/us/tv-show/occupied

Russia has put a lot of effort into developing the ability to cut and disrupt as well as intercept undersea cables, so the increased dependence on Svalbard for satellite traffic is a control point all the interested countries should be looking at. They have already demonstrated that they are willing to hold world commerce at ransom, so even as they recede as a naval power they are upping their asymmetric capabilities on the world's oceans.

How is Russia holding “world commerce at ransom” without being a naval power country? Just by sheer will alone?

By asymmetric capabilities I guess

I'd guess parent poster is referring to blockading Ukrainian grain shipments in the Black Sea, a route with some important bottlenecks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Grain_Initiative

> Russia has put a lot of effort into developing the ability to cut and disrupt as well as intercept undersea cables

Sure, but the United States military are the undisputed masters of that craft. I mean, same goes for the rest of your claims.

Maybe the idea of "world superpowers" is one that shouldn't have outlived the internet.

"Russia stages military-style propaganda parade on Norway's Svalbard archipelago - More than 50 vehicles, a helicopter and snowmobiles driven by men in military-like uniforms on the 9th of May paraded down the main street of Barentsburg." May 2023

Truly terrifying images:

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2023/05/russia-st...

And I thought Norway was overdoing it with their show of (supposedly not military) force in the form of a "Research" destroyer they kept docked off of Longyearbyen for a while.

I visited Svalbard in the dead of winter, it was a very surreal experience, not seeing any sunlight at all for a whole week. I was quite astounded by how "normal" life was there in the one town, and the contrast of the rawness of nature outside the town. In any direction away from the town there is nothing -- no roads, no cell reception, no shelters, just lots and lots of snow and hungry polar bears (hence you need someone with a rifle in your group if you leave the town at all).

I noticed this, someone in the group had a rifle, and also brought along a "sacrificial" husky (basically they told me they'd shoot at the bear, sic the dog, and everybody had to run away screaming).

No idea how much of this is true, and how much was story for a tourist.

Barents Sea between Norway and Svalbard is quite shallow. It makes monitoring submarines much easier.

The local thai cafe is "pretty good".

I was also struck by how good the wifi was in most of the dining places I went to.

Ran around, past santa's post box, and the seed vault, snowshoed up trollstein (spelling?), had great fun with the sledding dogs from green dog.

Ah, those were the days before covid.

I've gone to Svalbard a few times and spent a lot of time in Norway. It's a really interesting place.

GitHub has the Arctic Code Vault there. The Global Seed Vault is there. Lots of satellites and climate change research happen there. The local deer (reindeer) population evolved without natural predators there, so they aren't scared of people or cars like animals in other parts of the world. It's got pretty much the most Northern <insert anything> in the world, such as the northern most Lenin statue.

I wrote a bit about it and the Russian influence still there on Twitter a while back. https://twitter.com/elamje/status/1677013676635611146

Is there another link? I just see four pictures but no text, I’d love to read what you wrote.

The whole thread: https://nitter.net/elamje/status/1677013676635611146

For anyone who wants to make a twitter>nitter redirect automatic via browser extension:

https://libredirect.github.io/

If you do visit, definitely make time to see the Russian coal mining settlements in Barentsburg and Pyramiden. From the Lenin statues to the communist artwork to the gym equipment, they serve as almost untouched time capsules of the Soviet era.

Had a smaller private boat for our trip to pyramiden, but the wind got strong and whipped up large waves on the return trip so had to go back to Pyramiden when we got to more open sea. Luckily we were able to get a ride on a larger tourist boat crewed by Philippines. The Russians working in Pyramiden were taking a helicopter the next day as they were closing for the season. Trip back took like 5 hours, most of the tourists spent the trip on the floor puking in bags while we walked over them to order beer from the bar and talk to the Philippine crew.

Here's a NYT article with lots of photos:

>Glimpses of a Soviet Ghost Town on an Arctic Norwegian Isle

>On the remote archipelago of Svalbard, a decaying settlement offers visitors an intimate look at the not-so-distant past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/travel/pyramiden-svalbard...

(archived: https://archive.is/YXb14)

There's polar bears on Svalbard, don't they eat reindeer?

Another cool thing about this is that if you're at any of the universities that use this connection, they have a network monitoring tool available internally that shows the link utilization for the connection (uninett's nav). It's pretty cool to see the variation. (spotted this myself during an extended stay on the lofoten islands)

Seems like a really neat place to visit, hope to be able to go one day.

Nav is foss:

https://nav.uninett.no/

And some data on Uninett is open, eg:

https://stats.uninett.no/stat-q/load-map/uninett,,traffic,pe...

https://stats.uninett.no/kartg/last/uninett/norge/geo/nuh

If you are at a university I highly recommend trying to take a subject on UNIS.

I can recommend a visit. It's an easy flight from the Norwegian mainland.

Just very far.

A lot of the coolest places are, in my experience :)

It's only a 3 hour flight from Oslo.

So is Rome

Right. Europe is not that big.

Seconded. If you’re already in Norway the flights are not too expensive. If you feel the romance of remote far north environments, Svalbard will not disappoint.

How often are the flights to Longyearbyen canceled?

Svalbard is larger than I thought, but not as large as the projection tricks you to: it's 1/6th the area of Norway shown below. On thetruesize.com you can drag Svalbard around and compare it to other countries, it's roughly the size of all of Ireland.

It's interesting that they didn't land the cable near Tromsø, but rather IN the Lofoten Islands! My guess is that they want it to stay out in deeper waters until it gets to somewhere that submarines can't easily sneak up to unnoticed.

The cable is connected to Breiviks på Andøy, which is in Vesterålen, not in the Lofoten Islands.

“During the period 2018-20, Space Norway carried out significant security related upgrades to the fibre connection.”

Sounds like someone was tapping cables with submarines?

Only the USS Jimmy Carter has that capability, AFAIK.

Likely more concerned with sabotage, as happened to the Finland-Estonia fiber can pipeline link recently.

I guess they had a sense of foreboding, as in 2022, a Russian fish trawler damaged that cable link: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43828/undersea-cable-c...

I love Norway and as a US citizen I hope to move there someday!!!

The US Navy is an option.

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/new-norway-usa-defense-agre...