MLPerf training tests put Nvidia ahead, Intel close, and Google well behind
spectrum.ieee.org
spectrum.ieee.org
(Shoutout to DavidSJ who sleuthed this out based on the careful wording of the post.)
This was a big shock to me since MLPerf is the gold standard for performance comparisons. The reason you want to train an actual model on real data is because it gives a precise idea of what you can expect in the field. Google’s 2019 MLPerf results are why I dove in to TPU land and fell in love with TPUs. Nowadays it’s all about language models and giant training runs and there’s not a lot of compute left over for average joes (which I very much was), but rants aren’t productive.
What would be productive is for Google to focus on the basics: focus on MLPerf. It’s the standard benchmark for a reason. I can’t fault them for going where the money is, but it’s still sad to see the sorry state of Google being dead last. I’m still rooting for you, Jax team. I believe in you.
TRC is looking better these days. If you need spare compute or just want to try out TPUs, give them a spin for a month. When I was complaining on Twitter in 2023 about TPUs being deleted after 30 minutes circa 2022, two people stepped in and said that they were happy with their quotas and haven’t observed similar pain points. So maybe they’ve solved the provisioning issues, and they’re starting to treat TRC members as more than third-class citizens again. But, especially in modern times, it’s hard to complain when compute is so scarce; you can do some pretty amazing things with TPUs if you focus on them for a few months. Thank you to the organizers of TRC (Jonathan in particular, their support lead, who is single handedly the most impressive support person I’ve ever seen by a huge margin; and Zak for keeping so many balls in the air while leading the TPU infra).
You seem to be suggesting that Google isn't focusing on performance on MLPerf but on something else that's more lucrative. Do you want to expound on what that is?
I don’t blame them. It’s the right move. I just miss the old days. But those aren’t coming back, and for better or worse the entire world is GPT and Diffusion focused for at least the next N years.
Hopefully nerds can figure out how to scrape enough compute together to do interesting things during this gold rush period. It’s why TRC is that much more important, since it’s an opportunity to mint the next generation of engineers-turned-researchers. It would be smart for nvidia to offer something similar using their aging A100s. But I think only Google understands how powerful it is to capture the college students and interns.
So... Its November 2023, and we have a handful of really good open source LLM base models (Mistral, Llama, MPT, Falcon, a few code models, a few Chinese ones like Yi, a Arabaic one) and a few notable proprietary ones, and a few cool vision models.
... Where is all that hoovered up accelerator compute going? Shouldnt we be swimming in open and closed LLMs by now?
For most people the bottom line is cost and availability anyway - does it matter if a TPU is twice as slow if it costs half as much? I think I read somewhere that Apple Silicon is actually one of the most efficient platforms to use for development (e.g. a tricked out Mini makes quite a good inference server); I've been able to train recent object detection models on my M2 without much trouble (and it's much cheaper than paying for cloud time).
It’s a bit like a shared space race. Getting that top-N accuracy to 74 point yada yada percent in 37 seconds on a certain resnet architecture tells you that you can do the same thing on that hardware, which means you can do your own things just as quickly. So it’s a worthwhile time investment. If you force everyone to get that same accuracy with the same model arch, you can make informed decisions, which is especially important when throwing millions of VC dollars around.
EDIT: Sorry, I completely misread you.
It’s difficult to quantify what you’d like to measure: the bottom line price of who is cheaper for your expected workload. There are immense trade offs, not least of which is time spent learning a particular (esoteric) stack. CUDA knowledge doesn’t port to JAX and vice-versa.
Prices are always changing, and you can usually work out a deal with the sales team to get lower than advertised. Especially if they want you to choose them instead of some competitor. So in general it’s hard to figure out what you can expect for production workloads in terms of total dev cost vs price vs speed.
I will say that as a researcher, there’s no substitute for fast iteration cycles. I’m one of the few who believe in scaling down your models as much as possible when testing experimental ideas, precisely because you can try 30 runs instead of 3. So all else being equal, I’d take speed.
But all else isn’t equal. The only thing I want nowadays is free plus stable. It’s looking like a 4090 might be the way to get that, which is enough to try out some interesting ideas.
These are completely orthogonal? Jax can execute on GPU, TPU, or CPU pretty seamlessly, by design.
There were some experimental cuda kernel for jax codebases. They didn’t work very well at the time, but maybe it’s better now.
There is also support for custom cpp and cuda ops if that's what is needed: https://jax.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Custom_Operation_for_GP...
I haven't worked with float4, but can imagine that new numerical types would require some special handling. But I assume that's the case for any ml environment.
But really you probably mean fixed point 4bit integer types? Looks like that has had at least some work done in Jax: https://github.com/google/jax/issues/8566
Salaries more often than not, costs a hell of a lot more than compute and energy bills cost. If you have a 10k cluster, you're probably a mega-corp running a few teams sharing the resources running experiments in parallel to each other and themselves.
Now this is an very much so an overestimate on the actual cost of compute, the $10/hr/GPU cost is in all likelihood still significantly cheaper than the cash you pay to your researchers, and all the things that are needed to support them. Unless your team of researchers is about 10 people running very efficiently and making use of ALL the GPUs each hour of every day.
And just because the article doesn't mention the aspect you care about does not make it a clickbait.
Assume a 20 cent cost of 1 kWh, then a RTX 4090 with a 450W power draw for a year costs: 0.45 * 24 * 365 * 0.20 = $788.4
My point is that this cost (of electricity) is negligible relative to two other costs - cost of time (in other words, cost of human capital), and the upfront cost of the device itself.
This is a response to your comment "Wait, why? Is it more important to organizations to wait a little less time, or to spend less money (on electricity)?"
Can someone explain this math to me?
[1]: https://the-decoder.com/nvidias-h100-gpu-sells-like-hot-cake...
https://blog.google/technology/ai/9-ways-we-use-ai-in-our-pr...
Startups such as Essential AI, Ideogram, Character.ai were all founded by ex-Googlers. Plenty of engineers and researchers from Google Brain/Research have pivoted into these types of start-ups, not necessarily as founders but as individual contributors continuing their engineering and research work at these companies instead.
Heck, Google is even considering investing into Character.ai (ex-Google founder) based on the news released a few days ago: https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-talks-invest-ai-st...
It's not surprising that Google isn't the leader of AI anymore. The people who put Google in that lead position are gone.
There's plenty to criticize Alphabet/GOOG on. But pretending they don't develop things in house is just naive.
Google Ads: built from great many pieces, one of the largest was DoubleClick, acquired in 2008. Google Docs: acquired in 2006 from Writely. Google Sheets: acquired in 2006 from XL2Web. Google Maps: acquired in 2004.
I'm not trying to say that Google acquired everything and hasn't built anything; not at all. But a few crown jewels were indeed acquisitions.
Microsoft acquired Powerpoint.
Meta acquired Instagram.
Apple acquired NeXT and Siri.
I dunno what to think about ROCm. It does seem like they should have thrown the MI300 into the mix, but maybe its not ready.