High Cost of Colorado | Hacker News Reader

High Cost of Colorado

coloradosun.com

21 pointslatentcall22 comments

You can either (1.) build more housing or (2.) not solve the problem. I hope Colorado (and the rest of the country) eventually makes the right choice.

Colorado is at a crossroads, and in a precarious position. As to what quacked said, talk all you want about immigration, but it's not the ones shooting the Darien Gap who are buying 2 bed 2 bath houses in Denver for 1.4 million dollars. But it is true that the immigrants don't help, and drain enormous resources from the state.

No one seems to want to talk about it, but Colorado needs to heavily develop east of I-25. Watkins to Limon needs massively expanded. But it won't be the 'right kind' of people who move/live there and Colorado seems to have no interest in that. And yet they also have no interest in doing anything with the massive homeless and immigrant population. It's like when you do an environmental survey and the best option is... let the bridge collapse.

Nearly one million people became citizens last year, and that doesn't count unregistered crossings. People are shooting the Darien Gap at a chance to get into the US. I am so tired of hearing about the US housing crisis with no mention of the firehose of new people coming into the country, every single one of whom needs housing, and is far more likely to go to an urban center, where the majority of available jobs are and the housing crunch is worst. This is on top of a rural-urban drain occurring all over the US, where younger people are abandoning rural areas to seek their fortunes in cities. A similar immigration crunch is occurring in the wealthier EU countries, and a similar rural-urban crunch is occurring in South Korea, China, and Japan.

Somewhere between 20 and 40 million people have entered the US since 2000 with the intention to stay. The idea that this somehow hasn't exacerbated the housing shortage is absurd. I haven't heard a left-leaning person mention this source of new demand for housing a single time, and I read a lot of housing crisis news.

Marxist here. You're right, except there is no left wing to speak of in the US.

Regardless, the reason for the mass immigration is plainly capitalism. Immigrants are profitable (exploitable) in so many ways that citizens are not, and the ruling class only stands to gain from mass immigration as their property prices rise.

You nailed it. They've got the citizens here mostly hoodwinked, too. "We need immigrants to do jobs you don't want to do." No, they need immigrants so they don't have to pay me to do jobs that my grandparents and great-grandparents did, and so there's a larger base of consumers on which to grow share prices via increased sales and debt contracts.

> except there is no left wing to speak of in the US.

I'd say this is true if you're talking about people with real authority, but among the populace there's a sizeable group of people who would support a communist re-establishment of the government.

No left wing? The US has essentially become socialist.

The parent commenter probably meant: There's no Marxian left wing composed of serious people in the US.

That and the so-called "left" that we do have is opportunist performance; liberals washing each others' bloody hands in moralism and running out of ways to fool working people.

> No left wing? The US has essentially become socialist.

We’re really drowning in socialism right now with our private healthcare that’s tied to a workplace only if the employee works >32 hours per week.

And where should insurance come from?

Ah, the assumption we always need some rent-seeking middleman.

Illegal immigration is incredibly easy to stop.

You make it a felony directly to the CEO to employ any illegal immigrant or any business that employs illegal immigrants anywhere in the contracting/subcontracting chain.

Employing illegal immigrants will come to a complete halt which will cause illegal immigration to come to a complete halt.

The problem is that everybody likes slave labor from illegal immigrants.

I believe it was Georgia(?) who cracked down on illegal immigrants and then couldn't get their crops harvested because nobody local would do the work even at minimum wage.

I would love to make it a felony to employ illegal labor.

I also would like a reckoning over farm labor. If it's possible to tear down the neo-serf system for agricultural work via a goods pricing war, that's fine with me. I would labor in the fields for a month or two out of the year. (I've done hard outdoor work before, I'm not just saying that.) I just don't want to lose my normal job, mortgage, or insurance because I'm out somewhere else for a bit.

It is already a federal crime, just almost never enforced.

These companies (that rely heavily on undocumented labor, like slaughterhouses) are also way too friendly with USCIS/ICE/DHS.

There was a coordinated series of raids on I believe Tyson a few years. A few facilities in a couple of counties.

Eight hundred, nine hundred undocumented workers.

Many of them said that the company advised them on staying under the radar. Some even gave the arresting officers company paperwork that told them how to do certain things, like fill out their I-9s, etc.

A curious journalist asked at the press conference where chests were being puffed about such things and the fact that the company was obviously not just aware, but assisting in the employment of these workers. "Are there any plans to investigate the company or issue fines or charges?"

"We are not considering that at this time."

Huh, color me surprised.

With all the labor law issues that these places have, from OSHA to child labor, it wouldn't remotely surprise me that if the undocumented workers get a little too "uppity" about health and safety or worker's rights, someone from the company calls ICE and says "Hey, we'll help you find a whole bunch of undocumented workers at our facilities if you don't consider enforcement against us".

It already IS a federal crime to hire undocumented workers, and an additional federal crime to harbor them at your place of employment (8 USC 1324). But almost never enforced, for some odd reason...

> an additional federal crime to harbor them at your place of employment (8 USC 1324)

Knowingly. There are other stipulations too that make the whole thing pointless unless you're an active conspirator.

> But almost never enforced, for some odd reason...

Sourcing contracted illegal labor has been delegated to fly-by-night recruiters that basically round up illegals in a school bus and drop them off at the desired facility. The employer benefiting from the labor has deniability. Law enforcement struggles to keep up.

Right. In this case though, dozens of the employees had printed instructions from the employer telling them how to slip through the cracks. As in had been handed information on day one essentially saying "this is how to fill out our paperwork if you're not authorized to work".

And right after half of our industries which are dependent on this labor will collapse. Agriculture alone would totally collapse in this country, the food would rot in the fields.

Good. I don't know why you're defending the status quo. Are you pleased that the current industry setup necessitates serf labor from migrants? Do you see any value in living in a nation that actually provides for itself?

I'm not (pleased).

I'm simply saying we can just ban it. Our society is built on it. We need to be realistic. If we're willing to remake our entire agricultural economic system then yes. But that's simply not really an option especially in a free market like the US. It's just not really worth discussing, because it's impossible.

Personally, I would just make it impossible to illegally enter into the country without a visa. I don’t think you need to arrest any CEOs, just… don’t let enormous caravans of people walk right into your country.

Is this overly simplistic?

Yes, consider the cost of securing the ~11000 mile perimeter of the united states

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