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Comment by jakey_bakey | Hacker News Reader

"Coping Mechanisms: Over the years, adults develop various coping strategies that can mask ADHD symptoms. For instance, someone might excessively rely on calendars, to-do lists, or alarms to compensate for forgetfulness."

You're goddamn right I do

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In my case I have to say that is only half true. As an adult-diagnosed ADHD sufferer I cannot say that I developed coping strategies on which I relied excessively that masked my symptoms. Rather, I used to try [0] to develop coping strategies, only for me to eventually drop them for unexplainable reasons at the slightest routine-messing incident or event, regardless of how effective the strategy was being or how good it felt. And then some time later I would [will] try again, under the blissful delusion that this time it will stick overriding the rational memory that I never succeed in setting up a system on which I can rely for the medium-to-long term. Rinse, wash, repeat.

I am now in a low, with no active strategy, and without the mental strength to start working on a new one. Hopefully though I will recover my mojo soon and organise myself again. And I'm sure this time it will stick...

[0] I still try to develop coping strategies, but I used to too.

This is me. I stopped trying to be organized, because I know that as soon as there is some inconvenience or difficulty organizing, I will just get overwhelmed and drop everything I was trying to do. For example, I just cannot take notes or manage a calendar.

I got an e-ink notepad, which helped organize my thoughts better than the 10 different legal pads I would jump between. Still disorganized, but at least now my notes for a single topic are in one place.

For a calendar, my wife hung this acrylic calendar on the kitchen wall and we update it at the beginning of every month. I try to add things as they come up, and I often forget to add things if they are in future months, but it's helped for me to keep track of family arrangements. Any personal appointments I make on my own I try to put immediately into my google calendar, and then my work calendar is completely separate. As I'm typing this I realize I rely heavily on others to manage most of my time...

Which notepad?

Remarkable. I really like it. There are a lot out there now: Supernote and Fujitsu Quaderno seem like high-quality products; Onyx Boox has more features; Kindle Scribe is out now, too, and the reviews are good.

I do the same. And while it’s frustrating that nothing seems to stick long-term, I think it’s important to be trying. I’ll create a recurring to-do list of errands and I’ll stick to it for a week if I’m lucky. It feels bad when I find all those errands incomplete the following week when there’s a slight change in schedule, but at least those things got done the first week. And I pivot to a new strategy and try it all again.

The cycle stopped bothering me so much when I realized that’s what it is: a cycle. It ebbs and flows with my energy levels. And frankly part of why I can’t keep it up is probably because I’m putting too much demand on myself. If I need to take a break, I guess that’s just what needs to happen. I’ll probably pick up a more productive routine again next week.

I think that seems healthy to me. As folks with ADHD we are typically novelty-seekers. I think it's ok to accept that one's systems will be ever-shifting.

For a decade or two I've gone back and forth between paper and electronic note-taking and I think that's OK, I don't have to find one perfect forever system for everything.

this hits home with a caveat: Every time I try a new strategy, even if I drop it later, I end up a bit better than before. It's like with each try, my starting point for the next attempt is a little higher. Once I accepted that this is just how things work for me, I stopped feeling anxious about it too.

That's me too (except I was diagnosed as a kid). Only thing that has worked reliably with me is Dexmethylphenidate, but it messes with my sleep, so I get to choose between my brain feeling like mush in the morning or playing the focus-lottery for the rest of the day.

P.S. Nice Mitch Hedberg reference

Severe adhd here. The book “tiny habits” has been life changing for me. It hasn’t solved all my problems but it’s made a massive difference

I've recently been wondering if maybe I'm overcrowding myself in this way. I mean I definitely am, but I'm starting to wonder if there are any other options besides burning through tasks whenever I get a good day.

I don't think I've had an empty task list in my entire professional career outside of changing jobs and effectively declaring task bankruptcy. Todoist's end of day notification often says something like "review the 54 tasks remaining for the day".. One day someone will figure out a system that works for every ADHDer in the modern world and we'll have a new tech/space/etc renaissance, haha

Incidentally I saw this meme on Twitter while procrastinating something or other earlier, quite apt https://img.imgy.org/1xkR.jpg

Best of luck to you, me, everyone else struggling with this one!

For me, the biggest takeaway from David Allen's "Getting Things Done" book (which was hugely popular in the early 2000s) was that todo lists require aggressive pruning.

Otherwise they work well at first but quickly become giant guilt piles, aka "54 tasks remaining for the day" syndrome.

(Also then you never get the satisfaction of clearing your daily list, because it is one neverending eternal infinite list)

Which of your 54 daily tasks should be put on a "tomorrow" or "next week" or "next year" list? Which of them truly need to be done in the next 24 hours?

I'll give that a read, ta for the pointer. It's been on my to-read list for a long while but y'know, ADHD, haha. Bumped it up the list.

In the meantime I'll give my task list a realistic "when does this really need doing, if at all" audit, nice one

The total system he prescribes is perhaps a little elaborate, in many peoples' opinions.

Some people have great success with his system as described! I don't want to prejudice your thinking!

But I think perhaps 10x as many people found a lot of value from the principles he describes and adopting the bits of his system that work for them. (I am one of them) I'm just mentioning that in case you start reading and think "uhhhh this is overkill".

Above all else: good luck!!

Oh aye no worries, I'm familiar with the pick and mix when reading self help style books

Eat the fish, spit the bones! :)

Cheers!

Best of luck!!

Oh God this sounds so much like my autobiography :(

Honestly no coping strategy worked until I got medicated. Then it all became so simple and easy to do.

    And then some time later I would [will] try 
    again, under the blissful delusion that this 
    time it will stick

First... damn. I know the struggle. Much love to you and much respect.

Just an idea w.r.t. systems. Have you tried prioritizing "ease of use" over "completeness and awesomeness"?

I made some progress myself that way lately. I was always trying to organize things in some kind of... I don't know? perfect and aesthetically pleasing way? In hindsight, I think I was telling myself I had to get to some perfect system like these garages, where everything is perfectly organized and has a purpose and place.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/721209327810494107/

Instead what worked for me in the end was a bunch of clear plastic bins from Home Depot, with big labels on them. They are not literally childrens' bins but in spirit, the end solution for me was not too far away from this:

https://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=active&nfpr=1&...

Point being, what finally worked for me was the system with the lowest possible friction, not the "best" system.

do you find that todo lists help you?

I certainly agree with calendars/alarms but todo lists for me are a place to put things instead of doing them and then they become a separate problem all of their own

Same for me. Todo lists don’t work for me at all

The only kind of todo list that does is a piece of physical paper with the items that I want to finish that day

I find that for calendars and to do lists to work well, I need reminders to tell me to check the lists lol. Not great.

I made a kanban board of post-its on my bedroom mirror, that's hard enough to miss so that I automatically check them several times a day.

They help me. At least the physical, paper ones do.

I keep my days on track by taking time in the early morning and reviewing the previous days accomplishment/misses/notes and then writing down an outline of today's goals and reminders. Notes throughout the day get jotted in the margins. Something like maybe 70% blogging, 30% to-do list?

Can't say I've ever used an app that felt 1/8th as helpful. It feels like there's some extra brain magic going on in the process of putting thoughts on actual paper that results in more retention and effort of thought put into writing.

For me the most important function of a todo list is to remind me what I am supposed to be doing _right now_. I often get distracted and veer off to do something else, but a quick glance at the top of my todo list gives me that little nudge to go back. Anything further down the todo list will possibly stay undone.

That's a feature of todo lists I think. Well, perhaps not for ADHD per se, but it's a way also to offload and let go of things. At least that's what I remember the lifehack character on Queer Eye for the Straight Guy said.

Todo lists help me deal with tasks not worth doing. I feel anxiety over forgetting things, even if they're ultimately not important - it can be hard to tell what's important in the moment.

Putting it in a todo list allows me to let go of the anxiety of forgetting, because I know I'll triage and prune my todo list soon enough.

Yeah, prioritizing tasks is also part of the problem for me. I use the TickTick app to save my tasks and it has a feature called the Eisenhower Matrix, which allows me to prioritize my tasks in a visual way like a kanban board. Sometimes that's not enough. Keeping to a schedule to form a habit is also a challenge, so I prepend a number to the most important tasks and set up reminders for them. Once I have the big tasks laid out in the app, I revert to old school pen and paper to break the tasks down into smaller parts because it's faster and reduces friction.

Maybe that sounds like overkill, but I've found that having a system for writing down tasks, prioritizing them, and creating a daily schedule/habit are all equally important for people with ADHD.

I used to think they didn't. It is entirely pointless and even something of a distraction if it's something that's currently part of my hyperfocus/obsession.

If it's something I might forget (e.g. an admin task), then if I don't put it in a list and have either a habit to pluck it out of the list or a reminder prompting me then it is usually forgotten.

I also rely very much more heavily on checklists (especially templated checklists) than the average person. If I'm traveling and I don't set a reminder for 7pm the night before a trip with a packing checklist then I will either forget 4 critical items or I will be frantically packing at the last minute or both.

I mean the author in the article uses a to do list

    and then they become a separate problem all of their own

I struggle with it too.

There are an infinite number of possible todo systems and different systems will work for different individuals at different times. But, I do feel there are two immutable truths w.r.t. successful todo list tasking.

1. You have to aggressively prioritize and prune them.

2. You should have separate daily/weekly/monthly/"someday" lists. Or some variation on this them. Maybe you do weekly/monthly/someday. Or today/tomorrow/someday. Whatever.

Point is it can't be a single infinitely expanding list or multiple infinitely expanding lists. Otherwise it's just a giant guilt pile that is 50% full of crap you don't even care about any more.

I still struggle but I think embracing those two principles is table stakes

> today/tomorrow/someday.

For me: now, soon, eventually

And things might be in the "now" list for a long time. It's the hardest list to work on, for me.

I recently started talking to a therapist again after several years not, this time focusing on ADHD. I never realized until now the sheer number of little tweaks I've integrated into my thinking and behavior, nor the degree to which I've optimized them all for maximum likelihood of actually getting stuff done. No one approach works consistently, but every now and then I get lucky and one does, and that's a real improvement over not doing them.

> For instance, someone might excessively rely on calendars, to-do lists, or alarms to compensate for forgetfulness."

Holy objects. Can't survive with any of these things.

I have 2 calendars running (it's actually only one, but I have Outlook mobile installed, plus Apple Calendar- they sync to the same calendar , I get two separate notifications for everything so I can't just dismiss them as easily).

I don't see why any of that would be excessive or exclusive to people with ADHD. Neurotypical people forget important stuff all the time and would also benefit from good organizational skills and reminders about important deadlines.

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