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Comment by twodave | Hacker News Reader

I came here to say that $200/hour is only "extremely conservative" in very few and small geographic parts of the world. Where I'm from (in a large city in the US) this number would be described as extravagant. I've charged $200 or more on only one occasion myself, and it was a very short-term arrangement.

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I'm from a large city (but not the largest) in Canada and $200/hour or higher is common for high end devs, architects, and project managers. I charged $200/hour twenty years ago. These days I'd charge $250-300/hour if I was a contractor. It is not extravagant in most of North America, but again, it is a rate for higher end talent. I have not charged less than $150/hour since the 90s.

I once had some contractors in my team that were paid $500/hour due to vendor markup. I consider that extravagant.

I’ll second this that even in Canada, which has quite low tech pay, the lower end of quality dev work is $180/hr. Most of us managing contractors wouldn’t blink twice at $200/hr. Many of the bills are much higher.

where are you finding these rates at? i have rarely seen anything even passing $100/hr in canada, contract or not

Dude I got $1000 a day in Canada in the early 90s. You just need the right skills and contacts.

IT developers are often around $100/hour outside Toronto, Toronto being a bit more. Upwards of $150-200 if its speciality work or you're a team lead.

It varies though, the market also exists for $80/hour java developers, which tend to be new grads

Contract Developers going to technical companies will earn more like $180+.

every time rates come up on this website, people come out of the woodwork claiming "most" developers in every north american country make half a million or more a year. it's hard to not feel like this is just a few people using this as an opportunity to brag about their rates in niche industries (or people are just lying)

i have been a contract developer, and have worked at technical companies in canada, and have never seen rates that are even close (and im not a jr / have never used java for work outside of small amounts for mobile.) there's no way these rates are as common as you are all making them out to be, unless it's some niche, or you're talking about extremely short contracts, or there's some other missing piece of context

Well if you've never used Java (or c#), that might be your main problem. I'm telling you my experiences hiring as a manager over 10 years ago - all the senior Java devs on the program (about 8) were $90-120/hour. Architects were $150. PMs were $150. All independents through an agency with minimal markup ($3-4 per hour). I'm also speaking as an IC at times that's charged $150-250 an hour for over 20 years depending on the role. Rates these days are even higher.

These rates are at financial services , banks, transportation / logistics, manufacturing, telecom, etc. in Canada, US, and Japan.

You should read patio11's posts on this topic on HN or his website, for example : https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/09/21/ramit-sethi-and-patrick...

Yeah when I was a contractor in 1996 Mountain View $200 was table stakes for someone with non trivial technical skills.

> very few and small geographic parts of the world

There's reasonably good data about this that contradicts this?

$1000 as a day rate isn't unusual or unreasonable for a specialist IT contractor; and I don't say that idly; I say it from both experience and you know; aggregated data:

- https://www.hays.com.au/documents/276732/1102429/Hays+Techno...

- https://www.itcontracting.com/rate-checker/

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32606348

Yes, if you want someone to slap a php website together (or javascript, or many other entry level frameworks), you can pay less.

...but that's not what they were asking; they were asking for a technically sophisticated analysis of an existing project and a performant re-implementation in rust.

They got a bargain.

$1000/day is $125/hr. That’s a lot less than $200/hr. That’s the difference between being a top 10% earner and a top 5% earner.

The problem is that many individual freelancers look at their work from an employee perspective, not from a business perspective. From an employee perspective $200/hour may seem extravagant, but from business perspective it is nothing.

So if you hire an agency to perform a contract, they'll bill you $2000 per day and send you their employee who makes $100 an hour. Agency pockets the $1200 (it's a simplification, but should paint the picture).

Freelancer and agency both run the same business model. If you think like employee and charge extravagantly less, you will never grow.

You should typically charge enough, so that for any given project you could hire an employee to do the work, while you look for new leads or you can keep the money in the company and do the work yourself until you amass enough capital to move up the business ladder.

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