Man with no ticket or passport flew from copenhagen to Los Angeles, FBI says | Hacker News Reader

Man with no ticket or passport flew from copenhagen to Los Angeles, FBI says

nytimes.com

55 pointsedward80 comments

The ground crew that check people's papers during boarding are not the same crew who are on the flight. Copenhagen Airport has a separate area for non-Schengen flights. He may "simply" have arrived from a non-Schengen origin and then avoided leaving through passport control and gone on a different flight, somehow.

> The ground crew that check people's papers during boarding are not the same crew who are on the flight

Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't

Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the 'Funky Chicken' on your 75th wedding anniversary

If you manage to do both that would be very impressive

Unless you are male in which case it's normal in quite a few jurisdictions

To live to 115? And be fit enough to dance the funky chicken?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny

You can divorce someone and re-marry them soon after and not break the counting cycle.

> and gone on a different flight, somehow

At every airport I've been to, the entire barrier to entry for various jet bridges is one or two people keeping an eye on the crowd. I can imagine a lot of scenarios where the entryway ends up unattended, even if just for thirty seconds.

I once arrived in Vancouver on an international flight from Europe and somehow they messed up the "routing" of passengers and everyone just walked out to the baggage carousels for domestic flights without going through customs at all! After a few minutes the employees realized what happened and they just brought over a few custom inspectors to the "exits" (it was really just a low wall with plants separating the carousels and the doors to the outside) and checked passports of people leaving, but a number had already left and they didn't even have a computer or anything, they just manually checked the passports. It's possible they only let Canadian through this way and directed foreign passports back to a real customs area, I don't exactly remember. It was pretty bizarre and only about 10 years ago now. Mistakes do happen!

It's possible to get into the UK without a (UK) passport check if you go via Ireland. They treat the Dublin ferries and planes like domestic flights, they still check the passport at boarding and one presumes with it being computerised they still know you've entered the country (unless of course someone does what this guy just did).

There were signs up in Manchester that if you didn't have a UK / Irish passport (we travel on AU passport) that you're supposed to approach someone, but no-one guarding the exit. Ha ha honour system.

Doubly so if you drive across the border from Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland, since they're legally not allowed to based on the Good Friday agreement.

In some ways this is less what we want because as tourists that spend a bunch of time in the UK I actually want someone to tell me I'm complying with the law.

You say they check passports between Dublin and GB, but I'm a Northern Irish guy who took the car over the ferry from Belfast to Stranraer then back from Holyhead to Dublin, I didn't even think about bringing my passport with me. The height of customs was on the Dublin from Holyhead side, they got me to roll down my window and asked me what my nationality was.

Ah but I don't do a good Irish accent.

I was saying the flight did barely. Not the ferry to Holyhead

They do check your passport coming into Ireland. I think the CTA means reciprocal checks of equal passport standards so Ireland wouldn't admit anybody that Britain didn't want to allow in (technically).

That doesn't really apply since Ireland has different visa requirements to the UK. As a South African national I can enter Ireland without a visa, whereas I do need one to enter the UK.

But usually you need to go through security again even if re-connecting to a Non-Schengen flight destination. I've experienced this in several schengen airports (but not specifically CPH)

First thing they should do is check the airport cameras (edit: they did), and given that this person has identification from some countries I'd say you have a good clue of what has happened

"and street maps of “an unknown foreign city.”" Humm I think there are certain people that might help with this

> But usually you need to go through security again even if re-connecting to a Non-Schengen flight destination.

No you don't. Only if you went to a different terminal or something. You can very easily stay in the airside area (indeed this is exactly what you're meant to do if you're taking a connecting flight).

"No you don't" is not the case in neither FRA, CDG or AMS, I assume CPH is the same, though I never did this specifically at this airport - you have to go through x-ray and sometimes there are some boarding pass or passport checks

But if you have specific experience in this airport I'm all ears

https://www.cph.dk/en/practical/cph%20map

Arriving passengers end up in the general departure/arrivals hall, either inside or outside the Schengen zone depending on where they originate. There's no security check for transferring passengers.

As far as I know (having gone through a security training to get an airport pass): it depends.

There are mutual security standards audits and inspections after passing them one airport (or aviation authority) accepts the other one’s security screenings and then you don’t need to go through security again at the intermediate airport.

So traveling quite a bit you will find weird things.

It depends massively on the airport layout. If you transit domestic to international at Heathrow Terminal 5 you don’t need to re pass security, just a boarding pass check and can stay in the sterile zone. If you fly out of another terminal though you have to transfer to the airside non sterile zone.

If you transit at Helsinki from the U.K. to the far east then no security check needed, but if you transit from Helsinki through london to Africa you do go through security

Some airports just do security at the gate. Some airports have multiple security at the gate - the airport/country, then a second security check by the airline.

Then there’s the spot checks, I’ve been through a second check occasionally flying out of the U.K. (MAN and LHR) to the US, normally don’t get it, but sometimes do.

There are no hard and fast rules.

Not sure about Copenhagen, but transit terminals are a thing in Europe. There you do not, legally, enter the coubtry, your baggage is transferred to your connecting flight and you don't show your passport to anyone. Besides the airline personal checking your boarding pass and passport to make sure you are on the correct flight and are actually who the ticket says you are.

Weird. Someone at Copenhagen airport will have to answer some rather unpleasant questions about this.

See my other comment, you don't usually disembark in the terminal, but in a separate area

This might be true in some cases but it is usually not the case in the Schengen airports I know

There usually aren't any controlls between non-Schengen flights, arribing and departing at the same terminal, in FRA and MUC. Pretty much depends on airport layout, whether or not there are seperate terminals. If not, you have at least a passport control.

In FRA I did have to go through X-ray again, not sure someone checked the boarding card though

(and sometimes there is an extra passport check at the gates - depending of the origin)

As I said, depends on where flight originate and where they go. And to / from which terminal. For sure so you can change flights at MUC and FRA without passing security or border controls.

Yeah that makes sense

The article mentions that he might have been in Kiel, Germany recently.

And getting into the non-Schengen area via another flight would require a proper passport and visa as the flight would originate in a non-Schengen country.

Or he might have been going to Kiel, and came in from an non-Schengen origin to catch a connecting flight in Copenhagen to Kiel.

But flying from say the UK to Denmark would require him to have a passport and a visa (checked in the UK).

More likely he flew from Israel to Denmark given his documents, but when he said he left his passport on the plane, it might have been the first plane.

Kiel has a tiny airport that doesn't have any scheduled services, but they have a large port with ferry and cruise terminals.

> He may "simply" have arrived from a non-Schengen origin

Wouldn't he still need a passport to get on this first flight anyway?

Maybe he knows someone working at an airport

On most if not all flights I can recall I've ever taken I see same people doing check-in and taking baggage and then standing on the gate, often its the same person who took the baggage and letting me through for smaller/low cost airlines. This covers Europe but also some other parts of the world, albeit of course its not exhaustive coverage.

Blowing the dust of the ol' tin foil hat and dialing conspiracy theory a notch or three... the article is so vague on details that I presume that this was no accident and actually a coordinated effort to get this person in the US. Whether the task was successful maybe we'll learn in a decade or so.

If you take this man on face value, this would be the most terrifying situation to be in. You end up on the wrong side of a border control, without any idea how you ended up there, sleep deprived and hungry.

Not that you should take this man on face value.

> this would be the most terrifying situation to be in

Are you sure? How about a few seconds before you die? I would take being in US illegally over non existence any day.

And also he's going to jail instead of being deported to where he came from. I have to say the American justice system terrifies me.

He will very likely be deported if he has committed no other crime, but first, they have to figure out where to send him.

Fun story: A colleague had to fly to the USA for work, but when he arrived they noticed some mistake in the paperwork. They couldn't send him back because an Icelandic volcano had erupted, so they gave him orange overalls and chains and put him in jail for a while

"fun?"

Some have love stories from extra stays together or long roadtrip travel stories from the weeks of no flights, and some got an orange jumpsuit.

Proof pls

It depends on how you act. Most crimes require intent.

Going straight to border control, saying “I have no recollection of how I got here. I don’t have a passport” probably wouldn’t have gotten you charged.

That's basically what happened, and still the dude found himself charged with a crime.

So farmdve's comment is spot on.

Between the noted erratic behavior on the plane, his self-reported sleep deprivation, and him effectively turning himself in after, it seems very plausible to me that he was either on a bad drug trip or under the control of the Ambien walrus [1], and somehow the Swiss cheese holes [2] lined up perfectly for him to wander onto the jet bridge of the wrong international flight at the exact moment nobody there was paying attention.

[1]: https://www.healthline.com/health/side-effects-of-taking-amb...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

>He said he “might have had” a plane ticket to the United States, but was not sure, according to the affidavit. Mr. Ochigava also said he “did not remember how he got on the plane” and “would not explain how or when he got to Copenhagen, or what he was doing there,” the affidavit says. He also “claimed he did not remember how he went through security without a ticket,” it says.

He is either lying or suffering quite a substantial mental health issue. One would presume it wouldn't be too much trouble for investigators to get some more information about the circumstances of this man's arrival.

My guess would be that he's telling the truth about not knowing what happened or how he got through security, but implicitly lying about the (legal or illegal) drugs that put him in an impaired state throughout.

He was convicted for selling drugs in the past, but he had mental health problems since 24.02.2022. The fact that his Russian travel passport was missing probably points to a different explanation: he used it to pass security and he may have had a ticket for another flight, but he lost it after security. Extra stress did not help his mental state, so he eventually managed to board some random flight and landed in USA.

Edit: his conviction was for possession, not for selling drugs.

Poor guy. Apparently he was suffering from mental health problems recently.

https://m.lenta.ru/news/2023/12/12/new/

https://archive.is/kgaxs

>> seen on airport surveillance images “without a valid ticket.”

What a wonderfully meaningless statement from the Copenhagen Airport representative.

Denmark is surprisingly lax about a lot of stuff, we have an impression of Danes being a highly educated and motivated society but the reality is definitely more average. Stupid shit like this happens all the time but nothing happens because usually the consequences aren't too big (read: noticeable), if they are Danish companies usually hire American consultants

We got married in Denmark, as a lot of foreigners living in Germany do, because of this laxity. Germany requires a metric tonne of paperwork to prove everything was legit (and all of that had to be officially translated from source language into German). Denmark not so much (and they were fine with dealing with German and English documents). You gotta love the Viking attitude to paperwork ;)

Nice! I'm also definitely on the side of preferring the lax life. I'm a foreigner living in DK and it was definitely one of the most unexpected aspects of life here. I had always had this strong impression it was much more organised and things work in a "perfect" way but that was simply not the case.

Would love to live in Copenhagen but it doesn't seem particularly easy unless you're prepared to marry (which my GF might have a problem with, given she wants to go too) or get a job in Denmark (I have existing international clients and an Estonian company).

Would have no issues with starting a Danish company and transferring to using that and paying Danish tax but not really interested in working for a random Danish company just to qualify to live there. But that's not one of the options.

I'll just have to settle for visiting frequently.

That is because you are both foreigners and the marriage doesn't give you any rights in Denmark. If you were a Dane marrying a non-EU foreigner it would be a completely different story.

I suspect you're right. But there doesn't seem to be a stream of Copenhagen-resident foreigners getting married in Berlin as there is a very definite stream of Berlin residents getting married in Copenhagen.

Just be clear - the restrictions are on a non-EU foreign spouse's rights to residency in Denmark - not the marriage itself. Here Denmark is extremely restrictive forcing many Danish/non-EU-couples to live in Sweden and yes Germany.

Yeah, that's a different thing. We just went to Copenhagen to get married and then left immediately. Ended up in Australia as getting residency for my wife there was super easy compared to getting EU residence for me.

I can assure you that Copenhagen Airport and Denmark in general is not laxed at all about travelling without a valid ticket.

Hoever getting a ticket that will get you into the departure area is fairly cheap - Ryanair will sell you something for less than 20 euros if you are not picky about the destination. The check that your ID matches your ticket is done at the gate not the security check.

For sure, I'm not trying to say that this is common but rather that the expectations we have around Denmark do not match the reality. I will say though that CPH is one of my favourite airports because its always clean, and easy to get through (I've also never had to squat and cough there either which is not common for someone with my race+nationality combo! :))

I guess my point is that the statement is best in class PR spin. It's a pointless statement to make since everyone captured on surveillance footage at the airport will be seen without a valid ticket. However it's genius if the airport wants to assert that the airport does in fact have a working video surveillance system without being questioned about it.

Denmark is a "high trust" society and people generally assume others are acting properly. It is a bit of a cornerstone of the culture. This is what got them into problems with the Banking sector. They didn't check that you were receiving, sending funds for reasons other than what you stated, so a lot of Europeans figured this out and abused the system. Now the reverse is true and the banks here are incredibly particular about what you do. This is the land where people leave their babies asleep in strollers outside of the cafes after all. Source -American in Copenhagen.

I wonder how hard it is to shoulder surf the automated passport checks for exiting the Schengen area. At right time or if it is very busy it might be possible to slip by...

Still this would indicate that boarding and initial security check failed to verify boarding pass. Then again security check might just glance it.

Been a while since I used a schengen automate, but the last one I used (U.K.) was an airlock style system. No way you could get through without the person you’re surfing noticing even if the system worked.

Just look on EU railways regulations - they are huge and with lot of strange old technologies, because, when each country enters union, conducted long negotiations, some things country adapted to EU, for others, EU added new things in EU regulations.

Same thing with border control, every country made it considering its own traditions, practices, resources, and I think only exception exUSSR countries, which was used to totalitarian measures and used EU help to implement all new from scratch.

It's intriguing, his claims of not knowing how or why he traveled. Aside from that, I don't understand why this is notable or why it's getting the amount of coverage that it is.

You normally would have to go through two security checks and a standard boarding check to get on that flight. Maybe he got out on the tarmac and somehow just walked to the plane.

I've always thought that you could probably just walk off somewhere else once you're on the tarmac.

There are people watching you and a rope marking where you are allowed to walk ... maybe if you wear a yellow west.

Humans are bad at watching out for rare possibilities, particularly when their job is repetitive, even moreso if they’re sleep deprived or simply zoned out for a bit.

I bet if you try this, you’d have a >3% chance of succeeding… and probably >33% with a vest, no hand luggage, and actively talking on the radio.

Dress as law enforcement, and you’ll have a 100% success rate.

Yeah try that sometime, because a random wandering clueless person which doesn't wear usual bright airport staff clothing wouldn't be visible form a mile for everybody who cares to look, and there are always staff folks driving around with radios. You would stick out a lot.

It doesn't mean that you will never ever succeed (that swiss cheese model mentioned elsewhere), but most probably (at least in western countries and modern airports) you will be caught quickly and go straight to airport jail. Or if you somehow make it then walk into airplane which is actually fully booked, probably same result.

That being said I once had a very stressful situation in the middle of the night in Mombasa, Kenya where I was changing flight to Tanzania, but directions where to go within airport were vague, random staff didn't have a clue and when I arrived at the door to buses the staff/stewardess just told me to wait. I waited and waited till departure time, they didn't care at all about me and my increasingly urgent questions. I raised this with some random airport staff who was just running around, he just yelled at that staff and took me running straight through runways in heavy rain to the correct flight which was about to depart with aircraft door already closed. This was 2011. Impossible in the west, maybe now even there.

Two checks? What is the second?

Passport check for exiting Schengen.

I suspect most people think “metal detector” when they see “security check”. Documentation checks can occur at many points, from a shop wanting your boarding pass so they can claim the tax back, to the lounge to check your right of entry, to scanners at queues measuring waiting time, to checkin when dropping your bags

Different people check different documents for different reasons. I’ve had a police passport check post X-ray at Manchester in the past, the U.K. doesn’t typically do exit checks, preferring to rely on API. Schengen does, but sometimes they don’t stamp you on the way out which can be a right pain^W brexit bonus. Then there’s all the loopholes, like Brussels-Lille on Eurosta, where I believe you can get a schengen exit stamp but never actually leave schengen (two tickets from Brussels, one to Lille, one to London, use the london one, get the stamp, but then leave at Lille with your Lille ticket. Perhaps done with an accomplice if the Lille ticket needs stamping at Brussels, I’ve never done that route before.

from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38608064

Reply on news.ycombinator.com